Eclipse

G-G said:
Yeeaaahh but have to wonder why they haven't tried him at that already? Does he have an entry for King George?
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To be a superstar and a crack sire you have to win at different distances. He's won Group 1s at 7f, 8f and 10f and added beating the older generation today. Now onto the King George, Breeders Cup or Arc type races. His resume just needs a 12f win.
 
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Euronymous said:
I've just watched both races together and they went much quicker early doors in the (11 runner) handicap. I wouldn't be using the time to damn the Eclipse.
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Still adds up to a sprint finish though Euro, doesn't make him a laydown at further, either.
 
G-G said:
Well yes agree to a certain extent, but why go for the French Derby at 1m2? Will be interesting to see if he turns up at Ascot.
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Beating the best of your generation over 10f is sire porn.
 
Just a tremendous performance. We can analyse to the nth degree why he won so easily but I just prefer watching a top horse doing his stuff. Be interesting to see how timeform rate it. El drama could well be a 116 plus horse over 10f. Pleased for Ryan to be on.
 
Funny that so many dismissed smb before the race. Don’t think it would have made much difference whatever the pace was. Mishriff disappointing in gb again. Strange gosden moaned about the going as he’s won on soft ground a couple of times. The only time we’ll see smb over 12f is possibly in the breeders cup. Love and snowfall will be arc bound I’m sure.York, leapardstown then champions day my guess. Must be a dream horse to ride. Does everything so smoothly.
 
Edinahib said:
Funny that so many dismissed smb before the race. Don’t think it would have made much difference whatever the pace was. Mishriff disappointing in gb again. Strange gosden moaned about the going as he’s won on soft ground a couple of times. The only time we’ll see smb over 12f is possibly in the breeders cup. Love and snowfall will be arc bound I’m sure.York, leapardstown then champions day my guess. Must be a dream horse to ride. Does everything so smoothly.
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Staggered if there were many dismissing the winner going in. The result was fairly predictable with the weight he was getting and the pace angle.
 
The weight is a non issue honestly you have to put that out of your mind when assessing Group races unless the scale is wrong.

Golden Horn beat The Grey Gatsby in this race by 3 1/2L. I think Timeform had them on 134 and 127 respectively so that checks out. However if their Eclipse had been off levels the grey horse would have won.
 
The racing post with Tom segal podcast was quite dismissive of smb saying his form didn’t stack up. As Matt chapman of all folk pointed out it didn’t make any difference if there was pace in the race or not. Smb has a tremendous burst over 10f and always looked the likely winner to most punters beforehand. Clearly the experts didn’t. Smb seems to improving with each run. Tabor was purring before the race. They knew what was going to happen. I wonder if snowfall will go to the Juddmonte if there’s downpours. Smbs running style suggests he will be even better on good ground. Tremendously exciting horse and stallion down the line for the lads.
 
The problem with pundits/tipsters is they treat group races like they do handicaps. They just look at the form. And this is understandable as they are paid to have opinions on all the televised stuff - the handicaps at all distances, the 2yo races, the fillies races, the group races. This simply means you can't do them all properly and in Segal's case whilst he is excellent at handicaps - as a judge of group races, forget it.
 
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I realise the “Lads” are desperate to replace Galileo. Is this THE horse? Hmmmm. I’m not 100% convinced. Whilst I think he’s a very good horse, he doesn’t shout Superstar to me yet. Either on form or pedigree. I think he’s solid on both. But that’s all.
 
jinnyj said:
I realise the “Lads” are desperate to replace Galileo. Is this THE horse? Hmmmm. I’m not 100% convinced. Whilst I think he’s a very good horse, he doesn’t shout Superstar to me yet. Either on form or pedigree. I think he’s solid on both. But that’s all.
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You may be right, jinny, but I think I’ve moved camps. Previously in the “He’s not ‘til he proves he is” camp, I’m now in the “He is ‘til he proves he’s not” one.
 
Edinahib said:
As Matt chapman of all folk pointed out it didn’t make any difference if there was pace in the race or not. Smb has a tremendous burst over 10f and always looked the likely winner to most punters beforehand. Clearly the experts didn’t.
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Pace is key in most races. A Dewhurst and Poulains winner who has won over 10 was always going to spit them out given the fractions.
I suspect connections of his rivals next time will try more forcing tactics.
 
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Frankel said:
Pace is key in most races. A Dewhurst and Poulains winner who has won over 10 was always going to spit them out given the fractions.
I suspect connections of his rivals next time will try more forcing tactics.
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And be beat further...
 
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Slim said:
Beating the best of your generation over 10f is sire porn.
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Mmmmm French Derby not the race it was I think after the reduced distance was introduced. Will obvious stand as a stallion but to be considered a true great needs to prove himself over 1m 4 in a group one, or run up a stack of results a la Frankel.
 
jinnyj said:
I realise the “Lads” are desperate to replace Galileo. Is this THE horse? Hmmmm. I’m not 100% convinced. Whilst I think he’s a very good horse, he doesn’t shout Superstar to me yet. Either on form or pedigree. I think he’s solid on both. But that’s all.
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I agree. Why go for the French classics? Possibly thought not to be good enough for the English versions, or not as good as the Ballydoyle entries for the English versions so likely to be beaten, and French thought as easier options? Still can't believe such a poor number of entries when ground not either way really.
The Pivotal side of his pedigree puts me off- has to be true stamina doubts there, although obviously not to be taken as a given. Will be interested to see where he turns up and next and whether he stays in training next year.
 
G-G said:
He has an entry - 6-1 in the betting yesterday.
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You can get 12s with PP. Highly unlikely though I would think. Would have more than a hard race if some of the rivals rock up. The Arc will be his 1st try at the trip if he does try.

I'm assuming Love runs in KG providing decent ground.
 
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Can’t see smb going over 12f. The lads have love,snowfall and Broome for the 12f group ones. He’s won four group ones in a row so I don’t think he has anything to prove. If he beats the same horses at York and the Irish champion it won’t improve his standing. I’m sure the lads are thinking about him as a stallion already.
 
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