Egypt

Grasshopper

Senior Jockey
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Can somone explain to me what has caused the military to force Morsi from office?

I assume he has tried to implement some laws of an Islamist-bent through the system, but there are enough secularists in the population to have successfully opposed this?

Serious question - I'm really not sure. :cool:
 
The Democracy the people wanted didn't give the people what they wanted ....so try again!!
 
I just wish to congratulate the people of Egypt for kicking the arse of fascist Islamicism (Muslim Brotherhood) into the dustbin of history.
I accept that what has happened tonight isn't very democratic -- a military coup by any other name. But it is funny how the Muslim Bro's have been waiting for 100 years for their chance at power ................ then they get it but within a year they f**k it up themselves. :lol:
I don't know how it will all pan out over the next few days.
 
In their favour, unfortunately... Hope I'm wrong though!

Honestly, get a grip... Muslim girls are forbidden to marry or even go out with "Infidels"....

Democracy??

Ridiculous
 
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It's about time the people of the UK took to the streets.

We f@nny about far too much when politicians line their own and cronies' pockets at the expense of the ordinary person.

I look forward to the day when we see millions of people descending on Westminster to voice their anger at what the government is doing to our economy.
 
It's about time the people of the UK took to the streets.

We f@nny about far too much when politicians line their own and cronies' pockets at the expense of the ordinary person.

I look forward to the day when we see millions of people descending on Westminster to voice their anger at what the government is doing to our economy.

:blink:
 
I assume he has tried to implement some laws of an Islamist-bent through the system, but there are enough secularists in the population to have successfully opposed this?

There may be in the population but not in the administration and he was stuffing the positions of power with islamists

The egyptians quickly realised that the MBs intention was to create an islamist state and whilst i cannot ever go against democracy I am with icebreaker. This is wonderful news in one respect demonstrating that a large number of arabs do not want to live under a taleban

Some will complain about lack of democracy and that is a very strng point but its pretty certain that if the MB had a real grip on power elections would soon be "postponed". Islamists despise democracy. thats a fact

But t all comes down to the curse of identity politics. Our democracy works becuase parties do not hitch themselves to one religous belief or race (although ken livingstone strongly played that game)
 
look forward to the day when we see millions of people descending on Westminster to voice their anger at what the government is doing to our economy.

Have a bloody long wait then. Perhaps they could offer an alternative instead? especially given that labour have more or less stated that their policy would be much the same
 
I was going to take to the streets today but it's raining?

So I will watch the Wimbledon babes instead.....anarchy tomorrow
 
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I have to admit, there are not many better jobs today than being a ballboy crouched behind Sabine Lisicki
 
It's a decent enough article, although Cohen lets the Egyptian judiciary off far too lightly by comparing them to British judges. They were all nominated by Mubarak and did their best to obstruct Morsi even being allowed to take office.

But he is right that what has happened in Egypt is a military coup, and our attitude to its new government must be based on that fact. Soldiers shooting their own citizens by the dozens and hundreds is a complete obscenity, I hope the generals who ordered this all end up in the Hague before too long. The US gives $3bn aid per year to the Egyptian army (not to the state) and surely that has to stop.

The Brotherhood reign had its flaws, one of them being a naive belief that once they held a majority in parliament they could ignore other interests, but the people now in charge are murderers.
 
Decent article.

A free-vote wont always deliver a Government that Western-powers can (or want to) work with - yet the 'Democracy = Good (regardless)' mindset always seems to prevail. History suggests it's anything but the case - especially in the Middle-East, where Islam is more than just a religion; it's part of the political fabric.

Makes you wonder if we'd have been better-off minding our own business, when the precedent of supporting 'regime change' was first set.
 
Too kind on morsi there grey. Can't you see that given a free reign the mb would have split the society even further ?

Deomcracy is the only way grass but parties have to be non sectarian. That's why it works in the west (bar efforts by the likes of le pen on one side say and ken livingstone on the other)

Mb is very sectaroian and I suppose despite the killings it is great to see huge rejection of their bigotry by so many muslims
 
Too kind on morsi there grey. Can't you see that given a free reign the mb would have split the society even further ?

Deomcracy is the only way grass but parties have to be non sectarian. That's why it works in the west (bar efforts by the likes of le pen on one side say and ken livingstone on the other)

Mb is very sectaroian and I suppose despite the killings it is great to see huge rejection of their bigotry by so many muslims


You can't have your cake and eat it.

If "Democracy is the only way", then you should self-evidently be supporting the restoration of the Muslim Brotherhood, as winners in a free-and-fair election.
Democracy should make no distinction between parties or individuals, or seek to restrict or limit who can run in an election. In a true democracy, anyone should be able to stand - and then let the voters sort them out.

In this case, the people of Egypt have (by a small majority) chosen the Muslim Brotherhood. This is why the West is currently tied-up-in-knots about what to do. The hypocrisy of their position has been laid-bare i.e. "We support the democratic process......unless you pick a Government we don't like".
 
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Oh don't go all guardain about "the west" ffs. And again that's bollocks. No one has called for the coup in the west but naturally anyone with any human values will be sanguine about seeing the scum suffer

Democracy has to evolve of course but without protests and certain checks and balances youi can bet the mb would have dumped elections at the first opportunity

Also they were ( as the artilcle says) deternmined to put themselves beyond the law (which is the b alance we have in our vastly superior society) and you can guess where that was leading.
 
I'm prefectly well aware of what the MB stood for, and their efforts to put themselves beyond the law.

Stop dodging the point.

You, amongst others, advocated the removal of a brutal regime in Iraq. Presumably, you also advocate the removal of the MB by a regime which, if the TV footage is true, appears to be fairly brutal. Somewhat of an incongruous position, no?

You want prattle on about democracy, but it's on your terms only....which hardly makes it democratic. Labelling me a softie, Guardian-sucking pinko, doesn't change that fact. Better that you just say "Democracy can go hoist itself if it delivers a regime I don't like" - it would be more honest.

Throughout the Arab Spring, and during the foolish misadventure in Iraq, there was always a danger that foisting 'democracy' onto Middle-Eastern countries would see them splinter into a chaotic civil-war (e.g. Iraq and Syria), or put Islamic theocrats into power where we don't want them (Egypt and to a lesser extent Libya).

We need to be more careful about what we wish for. :cool:
 
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Hitler was elected. Should we have stood by and not condemned because the "will of the people" was the eradication of the jews?

I do not suppport the coup but understand it. Maybe the best outcome would have been a period of calm after the protests so that the bigots could absorb the level of hatred against them. If it wasn't for thr fact that they would probably not have further elections, then they would have had to quickly adjusted to win again

That would be an evolcving democracy
 
I commend the writer for taking what seems an ideological stance on the issue, as I think well-thought through, non-bigotted and reasoned ideology is a good thing, certainly for domestic Western politics anyway.

However, Cohens ideas seem way too simplistic , black and white and straightforward for them to ever translate into something practical in Egypt, based on what I'm seeing from the news agencies.

A media commentator on Al Jazeera said yesterday. 'how can dialogue between these factions become real when they can't even agree on events that are actually happening'. I found this a very telling insight.

One man kills another, in brutal cold blooded fashion, yet two sides have different version of events. In Britain this happens too, but when it happens abroad somewhere like Egypt, naturally Westerners generalise and want immediate straightforward answers. We expect things to become transparent, so we can then intellectualise the problem and make a solution.

Who is killing who?

Who is right and who is wrong?

Who is the worse of the two evils?

Who should we then finance and support? etc etc etc




Also, despite the illegal invasion of Iraq, and our leaders medalling in Middle Eastern affairs as if it were a toy that can be defused by them, its seems reasonably clear that the West has been reduced to nothing more than a social commentator on the Middle East now. Debating the terminology and 'language' of a coup while thousands on all sides are slaughtered all over the place in Egypt.

This is Camerons and possibly Barack Obama's biggest weaknesses too, that sometimes they come across like swarve political pundits rather than political leaders. Ready and willing to manipulate language and construct a reality that suits their own countries interests, while people in the Middle East are murdering their enemies like fish in a battle for power.

Its still better to play the pundit though............ than to dive head first into political insanity alas Bush and Blair I suppose.
 
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Iraq is entirely different. What crap.

Saddam was a regional danger and was clearly not elected. He was also exercising genocide over sections of his own country. As foul as the mbs beliefs are they are a million miles from that

You "presume" because you have nothing else to grasp
 
These things are surely linked though Clivex, and weapons of mass destruction or no weapons of mass destruction, I'm sure Tony Blair doesn't see the invasion or Iraq as a particularly clever one, especially in terms of stabilising the region.

When I watch leaders today, especially Obama and Cameron, they place a great emphases on what the actual intent is of their actions are.

Cameron has made tough decisions on spending but he places his intent on cutting the deficit. His chancellor even says he thinks cuts might make for a better society! They'll probably get away with this because they've persuaded the public that their intent was right and proper.

The problem with the war in Iraq, (its the same problem now as it was then), it that Blair's intent was so one dimensional (regime change), in what clearly is a hugely complex and multi-dimensional situation. That is the reason that even for a charismatic leader like Tony Blair, history will not see that decision in his favour, because quite frankly history will not be able to understand or comprehend it. :(
 
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The region was hardly stable before the invasion. In fact without our intervention up to that point it would have been significantly less so

All that's been a bit done to death on here though
 
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