Exotic Dancer And Jonjo O'neill

Harrington is an Irish trainer I would trust above all other Irish trainers in terms of the horse running on its merits. I am sure someone will point one out but I find it hard to remember watching a horse of hers in a race and thinking it was not running on its merits.

Yes she does appear to be a no nonsense lady.
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Originally posted by simmo+Feb 29 2008, 09:22 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (simmo @ Feb 29 2008, 09:22 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Galileo@Feb 28 2008, 09:46 PM
What we do know is the Odgen was talking to Jonjo O'Neill during the day....as was confirmed by the owner. That same day the horse was taken out of bookies lists and went out to near 30/1 on Betfair. Then that very same evening O'Neill gave the RP an interview stating he was "mystified".
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As I understand it the sequence of events is somewhat different??

Tuesday - horse starts drifting on Betfair and is removed from the betting by the Magic Sign.
Wednesday Morning - reports in RP of injury to ED. JO'N "mystified".
Later Wed Morning - Barry Simpson talks to JO'N about the injury following the reports and then speaks to Ogden.
Wed Afternoon - RP publishes the piece which heads this thread.


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The point is that the piece where Jonjo was claiming to be 'mystified' was on the RP website shortly after midnight. This indicates it was a news feature for the following day's RP. After a few hours it came down and no further mention of it was made - only those of us awake after midnight saw it.

You seem to be implying that Ladbrokes removed the horse from the betting to point up that something iffy was happening on Betfair? - yes that's a possibility! Presumably the only person connected with the yard able to lay the horse to sufficent stakes to push it out to 30 on BF is JP - but a huge lay of that sort could be traced easily.


Harrington is English, is she not? - but married to an Irishman and living in Ireland.
In any case she trains NH horses, and sheikh wants a flat trainer.
John Oxx? I never get the impression he's in the least 'tricky'
 
Originally posted by Headstrong@Feb 29 2008, 10:52 AM
You seem to be implying that Ladbrokes removed the horse from the betting to point up that something iffy was happening on Betfair?
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The drift would have been reported in any case.

I am suggesting that Ladbrokes believed there to be something occurring of a level of importance that they felt that additional publicity was required and took steps to achieve that.

A guesstimate from the info available on Betfair would put the total amount laid between 16 and 30 at around £20k (exposure of around £400k). Just how much of that was laid on Tuesday is debatable. And how much of that smaller amount was laid by the originator is also debatable. But it does bring the value involved down to a level encompassing more than the super-rich (although still not to the level of a hard up opportunist).
 
Jessica Harrington was born and educated in England but i think her background is Irish. She has trained plenty of flat winners including jumbajukiba rated 111, Curtain call 5th behind Ibn Khaldun in the racing post and Jazz Princess winner of the weld park stakes before she went to Micheal Halfords. John Oxx does come accross as squeaky clean alright.
 
The stuff about punters being the lifeblood of racing and being entitled to the information first is really only worthy of Betfair or TRF
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no one has suggested anywhere that punters should take precedence over owners but it is short sighted and frankly plain stupid for anyone to suggest that punters should not be kept informed of significant developments

The stuff about punters not being the lifeblood of racing could only be suggested by someone who is economically illiterate
 
Originally posted by clivex@Feb 29 2008, 12:45 PM
The stuff about punters being the lifeblood of racing and being entitled to the information first is really only worthy of Betfair or TRF
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no one has suggested anywhere that punters should take precedence over owners but it is short sighted and frankly plain stupid for anyone to suggest that punters should not be kept informed of significant developments

The stuff about punters not being the lifeblood of racing could only be suggested by someone who is economically illiterate
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Given the normal standard of your contributions on here, I think it unlikely that I will be rushing to listen to lectures on literacy (economic or otherwise) from you.
 
I hate to rain on anyone's parade but this notion that bookmakers are all evil and are desperate to con as much money out of their punters by deliberately leaving horses in ante post lists when they know they won't run is one of pure fallacy.

The suggestion that Ladbrokes were desperate to get something out of it, ergo that can be the only possible reason they didn't want to con people out of money is, frankly, laughable.

If a firm hears that a horse is out of a certain race or suspects there is a high likelihood that it won't run for whatever reason (such as dodgy patterns on Betfair) then the natural first step is either to remove said animal from the betting for the race or to suspend betting on the race.

Quite apart from anything else, a firm knows that they look unprofessional if they are quoting animals in ante post lists that they know will not run and, surprisingly enough, the compilers want to have an accurate list of potential runners and prices and also not have it cluttered up with horses unlikely to run.

Sorry fellas but in this instance you'll all have to sh*tcan your "bookmakers are evil, conning wee shites" theory, for circumstances such as these at least.
 
Bookies are just middle men, most punters lose so they show a profit. I read in the Post today that Ladbrokes made a big profit last year in part because of a small group of high rollers who were big end losers - Premiership footballers so of `em.
 
Originally posted by Galileo@Feb 29 2008, 09:27 PM
I am sure Jessica Harrington is Irish.
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From 'Moscow Flyer' book - <span style='font-family:Courier'>I was born Jessica Jane Fowler in London on 25th February 1947, and I spent the first two years of my life in a place called Ravensthorpe in Northamptonshire, England. In 1949, when I was two, we moved back to Ireland</span>
 
"back" as in "back to Ireland" being the relevant bit, surely? My mother was born in Malta and lived there for the first three years of her life, it doesn't make her Maltese. She is eligible to apply for dual citizenship (and declined to do so) but as her parents are both English she is classified as English.
 
Ha di ha ha!!!!!! :D

Actually, Malta is quite a lovely place; very quirky and very quaint. For Mum's 50th we organised a holiday to Malta as she hadn't been there [that she remembered, obviously!!!] and was desperate to see it.

Besides which, Gal, I'm fighting your corner for you!!!!!! :laughing: :P
 
Ok i've searched further into the Harrington Bloodstock Line

<span style='font-family:Impact'><span style='font-family:Courier'><span style='font-family:Arial'>'My Father was born in Kells, County Meath.... My mother was born in England but had a lot of Irish relations , and she used to come to Ireland alot as a child' </span></span></span>
 
Ok, so you're all right - it appears she is at least half Irish although with the Irish descent on the English side the Irish blood probably edges out the English!

Jeez, if you were to really go into it I'd be one quarter German and something like one eighth Irish, one eight Scottish - in which case I'd technically only be one half English!
 
Doesnt bother me at all what her nationality is. She trained my Favourite horse and i'll always be a fan of hers

On another note I advise anyone who hasnt read her book on Moscow Fyer to do so. A brilliant read and some beautiful pics of the superstar
 
Dom - leaving aside Jessie's birth place.

I'd like to pull you back to post previous, as I feel it's important. Now I'm sure you accept that I never accused Laddies of dodgy practices etc on the contrary, I even suggested they'd distinguished themselves, and believe me (as I hope you accept, that sticks in my craw) etc. I'd be very curious however if you'd be so good as to enlighten us as to how, and when news breaks in a trading room, and how you react?

Cricketfan, TDK, or Relkeel please, if Dom isn't prepared to tell us.

The question isn't as nasty as it might sound, I am genuinely curious as to how you respond or trade against a rumour?
 
I never knew that your mum was a Malteser, Shadow. I always wondered how come you are a bit of a fruit and nut. (Sorry to go off the topic.)
 
Crikey, that's the first time I've heard jokes about Ma being a Malteser.......!!!

Seriously Warbler, it's the way I described it before, pretty much. If a rumour drifted in we would weigh up the validity of the source, try to get it confirmed and in the meantime either suspend betting on the race (eg in the instance of rumours about Kicking King being doubtful when favourite) or take that horse out of the betting until the picture became clearer.

Any bookmaking firm worth their salt really isn't in the business of trying to get money out of punters backing horses which they are pretty sure won't run.

Btw, my comments were directed at the general opinions and comments aired on this thread, not at any person in particular.
 
If it is on say Sportlinglife that a horse may miss work but may still run at the Festival we would probably knock the horse out but leave it in the betting. If it is reported it is injured we would remove it from the betting.

If a high profile horse talks a huge walk in the market without any reliable story to back it up, we would just suspend betting until we found out waht was going on.

Contrary to the popular belief, we never set out to deliberately entice people to back non runners - all that would do is undermine confidence in Ante Post betting as a credible betting medium.
 
I was at the yard this morning (will put up some pics later).

Exotic Dancer went out second lot with McCoy up and did a piece of work with Don't Push It and Mountain.

I spoke to Guy Upton who said the horse was fine and as long as the workout went OK the CGC was very much on the agenda.
 
I'll be keeping my fingers crossed that Exotic Dancer gets to the Gold Cup without any more problems. I feel he's been very underrated in the build up to the Gold Cup and it would be nice to see the horse prove his doubters wrong and get involved in the finish against the "big two". Obviously, the poor form of the stable and the fact that he hasn't had a run between the King George & Gold Cup are two negatives for the horse. I just hope he can produce his best form on the day despite that.
 
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