Explosion On The Tube

Originally posted by an capall@Jul 25 2005, 10:37 AM
I'd certainly tell the difference between a Brazilain and a Chilean. (Although come to think of it I have yet to see a woman who has had a Chilean.)
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:lol:

Typical - lowering the tone of what was a serious thread!

Had neither myself (sound v painful) - but I have had a Mexican! B)
 
Confirmation Gareth your right........
Meanwhile, it has emerged Brazilian Jean Charles de Menezes, who was killed in error by police on Friday, was in Britain on an out-of-date student visa.... VIA BBC

Thats where the I.D.cards would come into play he would not have been in the country...................and obviously saved his life........
 
An out-of-date visa means the person is now in this country illegally, along with some half-a-million others, apparently. Does it sound like the house where he was living might have been a typical student let, perhaps with young men of various nationalities coming and going - like the one I have opposite me, where in the past six months we've had an Arab male, an African male, a Frenchman, several girls, and currently a very Rasta'd Levantine-looking gent who spends much of his time drawing with pen and ink?

Or is he actually drawing the specs for a bomb, and should I report the house to the Police, who'll find his visa is three days past exit, confront him, and shoot him?
 
I have to admit I have some sympathy with the police on this occasion. To be fair to them, if they believed they were dealing with a suicide bomber, and there is every reason to presume they did, they showed an amount of bravery to put themselves in the position they did.

The police are now in an impossible position. It is impossible to protect London/England's transport system from suicide bombers. At the same time you can't hold your hands up and say there is nothing you can do. The Police have reacted by making a fairly token effort to try and protect certain stations, based on information which could only have dubious reliability, and hunch. It means armed police will have to use their judgement in very high pressure circumstances. With all situations involving judgement, inevitably comes bad judgement.

It's one of those ugly situations where there is a bad policy in place, but it may well be the best available.
 
It bothers me that the story about the expired Visa is coming from "security sources". The victim's family deny it.
 
Melendez - if the police had every reason to believe they were dealing with a suicide bomber, why on earth did they let him on a bus? And what were the reasons? If he'd carried the coat, would he be alive today? It's just baffling how the police allowed the situation to evolve the way they did.

I've heard it suggested that they were following him in the hope he'd lead them to other members of a cell, but surely that is an unacceptably risky tactic if they also suspected he was carrying explosives? The police can hardly claim that the public's safety was their over-riding concern when they shot him dead if they had ample opportunity to stop him long before he ever got near a tube station.
 
Bad judgement - maybe poor communication. Maybe he wasn't a suspect bomber to the people who watched him get on the bus, but was to those who met him at the station, or if it was the same people, maybe they became more suspicious (were they the same?) , or maybe they had no means to intercept him at the time he got on the bus - I don't know!

The fact is that you are in a situation where doing something can be disasterous, doing nothing can be worse. And if you follow the policy that the police are taking disasterous mistakes will happen.
 
I get paid way more than a police officer for making relatively insignificant decisions in a context such as this. What a dreadful burden to bear - a horrible responsibility - lets not judge them too harshly.

The danger is they will equivicate for a microsecond at some future date and the bastard will pull the pin out.
 
He was shot EIGHT times seven times to the head and once to the shoulder - suggests trigger happy to me.

Krizon - he was living with his cousins in a flat in a block of eight flats .
 
Good Evening.
Good interview with an Israeli Official on tonights news. (BBC London)
 
I think it was the number of times Mr de Menezes was shot by the same officer that is so disturbing - however understandable it may have been in the circumstances to those actually there, looked at in the cold light of day it just looks like either a trigger-happy killing or an officer too strung out to make a proper judgement call...

Again, you have to have sympathy with hte officer who pulled the trigger to a certain extent as the real responsibility for this lies with his commanding officers.
 
The real real responsibility lies with those who persuade people to strap explosives to their bodies, Jules. All after that is derivitive.
 
Ardross - any idea why the block was being surveilled? Any idea why he'd overstayed his visa? (I mean, apart from the fact that we're too sloppy to pick up on these things, in spite of terrorist threats being anywhere and everywhere these days.)
 
An address in the block of flats (not, apparently the one where he lived) is said to have been found in one of the rucksackls recovered by police.

There were earlier reports that he was here on a student visa, which allows him to work restricted hours, that was three month sout of date. Police are now declining to comment on that story. His cousin says that he had a letter from the Home Office allowing him an extension.
 
Well, that clears up the surveillance bit, Brian, thanks, although with THAT sort of info, I'm amazed that the flats weren't stormed, and everyone flushed straight out into a waiting wagon for the rack and thumbscrew.
 
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