Fox Hunting

Shadow Leader

Shadow Leader

At the Start
Joined
Nov 9, 2003
Messages
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I know we've done the foxhunting 'thing' to death on here, several times over, but I'd be intereseted to hear peoples views on the latest update. It has been reported in todays papers that a Bill banning hunting with dogs will be forced through parliament within the next two weeks, using the Parliament Act if need be to get it through the House of Lords. The main problem with this is that there is not time enough to debate the subject, so if President Tone is detemined to put this through (which he apparently is, in a desperate last ditch attempt to save face) then other issues will have to be dropped, matters such as the Childrens Bill. Now I know how passionately people feel about the subject as I feel strongly about it myself, but do those of you against hunting truly believe that it is an issue of such national importance that laws protecting children (for example) should be dropped? Basically, Tone wants to force through a ban to save his embarrassment as he has promised to ban hunting throughout his previous two terms and if he doesn't force it through quick then he has lost another bargaining chip for the re-elections as people will start ( :blink: :lol: ) to lose faith in him as a man of his word...... :brows: Incidentally, word is that Labour want the Tories to confirm that they will overturn any ban that may arise should they regain power at the next election so that they have a classic "if you want hunting to stay banned then you'll have to vote Labour" situation. Funny thing is, I'm pretty damn sure that the Tories have been publicly stating for ages now that they WILL overturn any ban that has arisen should they come into power!! This is all looking a little too much like playground warfare here from Labour.......... :brows: :rolleyes:
 
It's not quite as you say: "If he...is detemined to put this through....then other issues will have to be dropped, matters such as the Childrens' Bill."

Take the Daily Telegraph's report, using unattributable quotes:
"They say he is even prepared to see important legislation such as the Children Bill or the Pensions Bill dumped to make time to get a hunting Bill through the Lords and on to the statute book."

Or the BBC - which has the opposition leader in the House of Lords forecasting what might happen:
"But the Tory leader in the Lords has warned a debate could take six days. This would threaten progress of other legislation including the Children's Bill, Lord Strathclyde told the BBC. A lengthy debate on hunting with dogs would threaten other legislation and something had "got to give", Lord Strathclyde said.

Whatever we think of Mr Tony, he is an arch politician and he would not allow his opponents (including those in his own party) the opportunity for attack over delaying key legislation. Of course, he wouldn't be adverse to blaming the Conservative peers for causing postponement...

Incidentally, the Children's Bill (or Children Bill as it's called officially, but I prefer the possessive case, as do most of the media) is not really about laws to protect children - they exist already. It's a reaction to the Victoria Climbie case and under its provisions local authorities, police and social services will be obliged to work together to ensure child welfare. The bill provides that every child will have a record of involvement with social services or trouble with the police
 
I forgot to put the (for example) after that particular case! Yes, what you're saying is true......but the gist of it is pretty spot on....tosser Blair is desperately trying to get the Bill passed to save face, funny that he's only just got off that fence he's been perched on for the past 7 years.....
 
I got harrassed in Swindon at the weekend by a load of antis out on a mission, if I wasn't in such a rush I'd have let them know exactly what I thought of their campaign, I work in a god damn National Hunt yard, what do they think!!!

Personally I think for something that has so little importance to what goes on in the country its dreadful the government are spending time and money on banning hunting, such as you say, protecting children.... I mean what is more important?
 
Of course legislation to benefit children is more important, but there will always be something more important, and this has been an election pledge since 1997.

IMO your average Conservative voter has had a lot less to get upset about since Tony ''I Can't Believe It's Not Tory'' Blair got into power than those of us lefties who had to endure the Thatcher and Major years.

Accepting legislation you really don't like is part of living in a democracy and, symbollically, I think some people in this country need to be reminded of this and feel the way I felt during the 1980s when labour laws were changed, the poll tax introduced and NHS budgets slashed, arguably increasing the mortality rate in some parts of the country.

The Tories can always repeal a hunting ban if and when they get back into power, but I want to see this hunting ban become law, I want to see this law observed, and I want to see anyone who thinks they're above the law chucked in jail.

Hope I've made myself clear. :lol:
 
Agree with Ian.

It would be nice for the hunters to admit that they hunt for pleasure and nothing else.
 
Originally posted by Derek.Burgess@Sep 6 2004, 09:08 PM
Agree with Ian.

It would be nice for the hunters to admit that they hunt for pleasure and nothing else.
Click to expand...
In the same way it would be nice for the protestors to admit that they aren't animal lovers and that attempting to slit my mates ponies throat is out of order, as is sabotaging other animals involved in hunting.
They should all grow up and let be.
 
basilbrush.jpg


Bad example, possibly.
 
If a Conservative govenrment makes it illegal to participate in secondary picketing, or illegal not not pay poll tax, then anyone (who maybe voted Labour) who doesn't respect that law and breaks it, deserves to be punished by the judiciary.

However, if a Labour government makes it illegal to participate in hunting, then anyone (who maybe voted Conservative) who doesn't respect that law and breaks it, deserves to be punished by the judiciary.

We go out and vote - and then we accept the result and the subsequent legislation until it's time to vote again.

This seems fair and even handed to me.
 
Irish stamp,

leave alone to do what?


Being emotional all the time does not lead to sensible problem solving.

Act in haste,repent at leisure was something that my Grandparents taught me.

Sometimes i fail.

How about you?

By the way,we all have choices.

2 in fact.

No 1. take a line of action = a particular response.

No 2. take different line of action = a different response.

They make a lot of glass in St Helens.A good action would have been to ban the throwing of stones. :D
 
We've been down this road too many times!

I don't hunt but allow the local Harriers over my land. The mink hounds are banned. I truly believe fox-hunting to be a useful and sensible sport but am against most other forms of hunting, as there are better ways of controlling deer/mink etc.

BUT, by banning hunting with dogs, it is inevitable that in time shooting and allied field sports will go - with the exceptions of fishing, of course! It is living in cloud cuckoo land to believe that those behind banning hunting with hounds will be content to stop there - they won't.

So the reason I am anti banning hunting at all is because those behind the move politically are nothing but hypocrites - if fishing were also included along with all field sports, then you wouldn't see the Labour Governent for dust in back-tracking.

You're talking about killing for pleasure? Go watch any fishing match - no difference whether it's foxes, fish or deer. It's just that foxes and deer appear 'cuter'.
 
I wish to point out that i am not anti hunting.

If the Fox population is to high,then a cull should be undertaken,periodically.

What i am against is the local Gentry and their Ladies and children quaffing huge amounts of alchohol,then sitting astride their steeds and galloping off into the distance with around 50 dogs in tow to kill Foxes. (it must be for pleasure cos it's so adhoc.)

The same goes for the misguided animal rights protestors.They are mostly ill advised innocents who get carried along by the histrionics of a few.

Ban hunting with hounds.

Allow another form of sport with the dogs that involves following a trail and does not lead to the death of any animals or rider.

IMHO :)
 
So when are the police going to uphold the laws relating to drugs?

And when will they 'put to rights' the gangs of pissheads and thugs roaming around our towns and cities on a Saturday night? Thugs who make the civilised members of society feel as if they want to stay at home and prepare for a day of foxhunting.

I suspect that the police would devote relatively more resources to preventing foxhunting because foxhunters are actually a lot easier to arrest, charge and convict.

There's absolutely no need to ban it. If people don't want to do it then they don't have to. If they do want to do it then that's their business. It is of no concern to me or to the state.
 
Originally posted by Irish Stamp+Sep 6 2004, 09:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Irish Stamp @ Sep 6 2004, 09:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Derek.Burgess@Sep 6 2004, 09:08 PM
Agree with Ian.

  It would be nice for the hunters to admit that they hunt for pleasure and nothing else.
Click to expand...
In the same way it would be nice for the protestors to admit that they aren't animal lovers and that attempting to slit my mates ponies throat is out of order, as is sabotaging other animals involved in hunting.
They should all grow up and let be. [/b][/quote]
Good point, Martin......animal lovers my arse!!!! Most of the antis are nothing but pikeys with nothing better to do with their time than be a menace to others; tell me, if they are all such animal lovers why do the antis turn up at meets wearing balaclavas and wielding baseball bats? Why do they swing their baseball bats at the horses' heads?? Why do they pull riders off their horses?? It makes me laugh that the powers that be are trying to make criminals out of honest folk going about their daily routines but the arseholes pulling people off their horses are fine.

I'm also getting extremely concerned that there appears to be another point myself & Terry agree upon!!! :blink: :lol: He is spot on when he says that it'll be people hunting who are arrested (if it is banned) whilst all over the country lowlifes will be able to merrily mug people and get away with it. It's a similar situation with the CSA; I know men who are being battered by the CSA demanding more and more money from them for their kids when they are already paying large chunks of their salary to their ex wives (quite happily, I might add) yet when you come across a bloke who won't pay a penny the CSA don't want to know; they say they cannot do anything. Although she's one of my least favourite people, my Dad's....erm....girlfriend (see, I can be polite!!!) does not recieve a penny from the father of her two little brats. They say they can't track him down and that he is out of work so has no money yet he appears to spend most of his time in one of the less salubrious public houses in a luverley part of Bracknell spending cash on drink!!

Anyhow....back to subject....if hunting does get banned in the interim, it's not going to stop me from going hunting this season when I come back as I've been really quite looking forward to begging a friend for a horse for a day's hunting, haven't been hunting for 10 years now!!!!
 
Probably not.....but what the heck!! Actually, it was jumping that made everything so much worse......took my mare into the picadero last week & my mate had left up a course of jumps.....it was like a red rag to a bull....I just couldn't help myself!! After a good hour of jumping, I really struggled to walk (hell, move even!!) for about 3 days.......
 
Originally posted by Derek.Burgess@Sep 7 2004, 05:13 AM
Irish stamp,

leave alone to do what?


Being emotional all the time does not lead to sensible problem solving.

Act in haste,repent at leisure was something that my Grandparents taught me.

Sometimes i fail.

How about you?

By the way,we all have choices.

2 in fact.

No 1. take a line of action = a particular response.

No 2. take different line of action = a different response.

They make a lot of glass in St Helens.A good action would have been to ban the throwing of stones. :D
Click to expand...
Leave something that by and large is not harming the human population, concentrating on the poor conditions of immigration centres - which actually affect human lives (whether they want to admit it or not), conditions in childrens homes, working conditions of Doctors, nurses, firemen etc.

Agree on the emotional bit which is why anti-hunt people should be told to grow up and focus their energy on something more positive.

As for an alternative, some proper non-biased research into the subject might help instead of Animal Aid and other such group's reseach "proving" that X% of the fox population suffer more than one heart attack during the chase. People believe these facts owing to the amount of time the media gives to such extremist protestors.
I am neither for nor against fox hunting, my point being protestors should protest against something more important than people chasing a fox around a field.

Bearing in mind this country is a democracy, supposedly anyway and everyone is equal what gives the anti-hunt brigade the right to raise their voice above all others and voice made-up, extremist figures about the percentage of the population who want fox hunting banned.

As for Pilkington Glass it is a top quality company, have you been to the glass museum recently? B)

Regards
Martin
 
Shadow Leader - you are confusing antis and activists. In all polls a majority of the population is against fox-hunting. They do not all wear balaclavas.
 
Brian...they are all called Antis when they are out in the field protesting, trust me! I'm not saying all people against hunting do don balaclavas but it is a sad fact that the Police do have to attend meets as Antis do turn up at most meetings to protest. I know they aren't all violent but unfortunately out of all the Antis who do turn up at meets to protest, around half of those (at least) do not turn up with any intention of staging a peaceful protest. I know of many, many occasions in the past when my local hunt has had violent Antis turn up - in fact, my local hunt always has a police escort at meets. On one occasion they picked on the wrong crowd though....the Antis lined up in the path of the oncoming meet, trying to grab riders & pull them off their horses. What the prats didn't realise is that a large majority of the riders were polo players so horse and rider were used to charging into things without stopping....they scattered pretty damn quick when the horses all lined up and charged, I can tell you!!

Oh, and how many polls do you believe as gospel??!!! :lol: Besides, it is an age old British tradition to jump on the boat regardless of whether you know what you are getting on......
 
When a poll is conducted by a professional polling company (and one that is totally independent) and an adequate sample is used, allowing for the appropriate standard deviation percentage, I believe all of them. Which is how I have made good money on the spreads at the last three general elections.
 
Fair enough if it works for you! I just find it very tiresome that for every subject, there's a bloody poll about it somewhere.......usually conducted on the High St where the only people that have the time to speak to canvassers are housewives or OAP's. Generalisation, I know.......but I'm good at it!!!!! :P :lol:
 
I would suggest if a poll came out in the morning stating the majority favoured fox hunting to continue, many of those who were doubtful of the accuracy of the polling system would soon change their mind!!


Shadow Leader....whats your views on stag hunting with hounds?
 
To be quite honest, Aidan, I know very little about it as it doesn't happen in my neck of the woods - it generally happens more in the West Country. So I'd be reluctant to say anything about it at all!
 
Stag hunting is very selective - the stag is chosen early in the morning, and is shot when he is at bay - from a culling and keeping the quality of stock high, I am all for it. The only field sport I have a bit of a problem with is shooting - there is too much margin for error for my liking. but I will support it under the banner of country sports......
 
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