Fox Hunting

And herein lies the problem - Trudi highlights it brilliantly.

By lumping together all the various field sports under one banner, Labour - well, not just Labour but Jo Public in general, can feel safe in the generalisation that all field sports are 'bad'... with the exception of fishing, of course!

I dislike Stag Hunting for pretty much the same reasons as Trudi dislikes shooting - too much margin for error. Living next to the Quantock Staghounds whether they are managed less than well, I don't know but there are always a couple of stories of staghounds running their quarry down in the villages and crossing land they have been banned from every season. I would prefer that they were stalked professionally, using well-trained dogs and qualified marksmen to cull them - less stress and the same end result.

That isn't so easy with foxes, as had been aired on here before.

And there are many shoots I wouldn't dream of setting foot on - those huge, 1000+ bird day driven ones are anathema to me - the birds don't fly high, there are so many of them that even crap shots manage to hit them and the 'us and them' snobbery of guns and beaters is laughable.

However, all those smaller, well-run outfits up and down the country, mainly done by part-time gamekeepers with help from the paying guns and beaters all year round, where everyone goes for a good day out, with respect for their quarry and a chance to enjoy the countryside and get away from the rat-race and where everyone eats together and the craic is great - losing that really will hit hard if the day ever comes. And those shoots are in fact in the majority throughout the UK, so, like Trudi, that's what I am concerned to preserve and if that means being pro-hunting overall, so be it!
 
Culling - Suggests a measure taken to take out the sick,lame and to keep the population down to a managable level.= ok By me.

Chasing animals around until they are Knackered and tearing them to bits for a days sport. = No respect for animals,what ever reason you choose to give.

Why will no one of the pro Hunting movement give a good reason why drag hunting is not a good alternative to hunting live animals for sport.

Dog Fighting
Cock Fighting
Badger Baiting
Fox Hunting
Hare Coursing
Stag Hunting

All "Sports"of a cheap thrill variety,and prevalent(spelling) with the country set.

If you can't hit a dog sized animal it's time you stopped drinking and took shooting lessons. :D
 
Wow, Derek - I hadn't realised you are such a great shot. Respect.

My experience is that shooting foxes isn't that easy but then I'm not a brilliant shot.
 
With respect, Derek, I really do think you should stick to subjects you know something about rather than getting stuck in for the sheer hell of it. I'd love to see you even manage to hit a clay pigeon with a 12 bore, let alone a bloody fox. Anybody who has half an idea about shooting knows that it is nigh on impossible to get a clean, fatal shot on a fox as they are so quick and wily. Mind you, what would you know - I don't suppose you've seen a fox operating in it's habitat, have you?
 
Suffice for you to know that i have almost 23 years of Military Service and was taught to shoot with Lee Enfield 303.A very accurate weapon at fairly long distances.Although i have not used a weapon in anger for many years now.I can't think that i have anything to learn from you fine members of this board.

If you are using 12 bore,the only thing you will hit is a flock of Canada Geese flying slowly.Of course they would have to be flying low as well.

As far as foxes go,if you would like to take trip to Germany i will be quite happy to take you to a local Golf Course where Foxes can bee seen on a daily basis.

Now,shooting animals,Here in Germany,animals are culled by shooting.It is not always possible to be sure of a clean kill.To this end, there are dogs trained to find injured animals,this they do quite efficiently and quickly.

I don't usually open my mouth and talk about something i know very little about.(betting exchanges being an exception.)

Oh an interesting point for you.I had to re-qualify annually for the whole of my Army Service on a whole range of weapons,not just the best Sniper Weapon this world has ever seen, and still the snipers choice today,
:D :D
 
Hi,again,
still no answer on the thorny subject of drag hunting.

No Blood ,no fun.
 
Originally posted by terry@Sep 7 2004, 07:05 AM
So when are the police going to uphold the laws relating to drugs?

And when will they 'put to rights' the gangs of pissheads and thugs roaming around our towns and cities on a Saturday night? Thugs who make the civilised members of society feel as if they want to stay at home and prepare for a day of foxhunting.

I suspect that the police would devote relatively more resources to preventing foxhunting because foxhunters are actually a lot easier to arrest, charge and convict.
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Trade unionists could have offered the same argument in the 1980s about policemen arresting them for secondary picketing instead of going after drug addicts and lager louts.

The law is the law is the law - people like me had to accept laws we didn't like in the 1980s and, fully seven years into this era of Labour government, it finally looks as if a law might go on the statute book which really annoys a lot of conservatives in rural areas.

Well, suck it up - that's democracy; I bet a lot of pro hunters didn't have much sympathy for trade unionists who saw laws passed against them in the 1980s, so pro-hunters shouldn't expect sympathy over this.

If anyone goes hunting once the ban comes in, I sincerely hope they get to see the inside of a prison cell because I, and many others, spent 18 years obeying laws brought in by the Tories which we didn't agree with.

Democracy breaks down if we only obey the laws we agree with.
 
I've been informed today by our Security Officer (at the racecourses) that those annoying little stop-go lights at minor roadworks are, in fact, ILLEGAL. I shall take great pleasure in future in whizzing through the red ones and suing the knackers off the buggers when the oncoming vehicle totals mine. Looks like a winner to me!
 
Drag hunting is not so popular in this neck of the woods because it is non-productive for the farmers. If a sheep farmer ( for example ) lets the hunt across his land, he can be fairly certain of a useful result for him ( less predators for his lambs ) - together with his fences mended ( just as a goodwill gesture ) - to attone for the fact that 30 - 40 horses clattering across his fields in winter poaches the ground. ( so I suppose you could argue he gets free ploughing! ) Drag hunting churns up his land and wrecks the fencing for no gain, they ( as far as I am aware ) arent paid to use their fields, so if fred the farmer isnt going to "gain" by having a predator taken care of, why should he let herds of horses over his land to ruin it?? Drag hunting is also expensive - and there are very few packs in the country. Most people I know dont feel strongly one way or another about hunting - they're there for the ride, and if there was a drag pack near who hunt regually they would go out with them happily.
 
"I've been informed today by our Security Officer (at the racecourses) that those annoying little stop-go lights at minor roadworks are, in fact, ILLEGAL"
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As you are not one for point-scoring, you will take no pleasure from being able to tell him that he is wrong. They do not even require a licence, though the user has to get approval from the local authority's highways department for their use.
 
Well better than seven years in South Wales :lol: ( with apologies to Ned and The Cardiffian )
 
Ok Derek....so if you are a practiced sniper I am sure that you will also be aware that you can hardly go down the local woods & wave about an AK47 just to get a fox!! Shotguns are the only realistic option as normail hunting rifles are not powerful enough to kill a large animal such as a fox outright as you will know. The higher calibre rifles (apart from being illegal to own & wave about in public) are simply far too powerful and dangerous to use for hunting; they were developed to kill, and to be used in warfare, as i am sure you are very well aware! :D
 
I'm pretty sure they use a rifle for deer, with a heart shot. No idea what bore, etc., but Derek will. Incidentally, there are plenty of countries which enjoy drag hunting. I have friends in South Africa who rode regularly in what was called the Transvaal (now Mpumulanga), and the drags are still working. America has drag hunts and I believe also NZ. Fact is, different hounds are used for drags, not foxhounds, and there is a large number of foxhunting supporters who'd rather stick pins in their eyes than support drags.

If you're a foxhunting supporter, whether riding to hounds or on foot, you will believe draghunting to be purposeless. There is also the issue of hunts taking fallen deadstock from farms for free: they will take dead cattle and horses, but not sheep. (As I noted some time back, quite often NH horses who've come to grief on course are also sent to kennels to feed hounds.) There will be a problem for farmers with fallen stock who can't call upon their local kennels to take the dead animals for the hounds to eat. It costs easily £200 to get a licensed haulier to remove a dead animal to the crematorium, where there are further fees.

You are not supposed to bury your dead pet pony as it may foul the water table, nor may you leave your dead cows to rot on top of the ground (however 'natural' that is, and prevalent in the Third World). And in spite of the Govt's way of handling millions of cows during the BSE crisis, you're not allowed to make bonfires of your dead animals. However, if hunts are to be closed, then the Govt. does have to come up with some alternative ideas as to the disposal of dead stock where it has traditionally been removed by local hunts.
 
All culled deer must be shot by trained marksmen using high velocity rifles. The 1991 Deer Act provides the relevant statutory framework within which the Trust and its employees must operate.

The safest method of culling with a rifle is from a high seat. However, it is unrealistic to expect that any cull target could be achieved solely in this way. Inevitably most animals will be shot from the ground, a situation which reinforces the need for the highest standards of skills and responsibility.

Under most conditions deer may only legally be shot during the period commencing one hour before sunrise and ending one hour after sunset. Although a standard practice in Scotland, night shooting of deer in England and Wales can only be carried out in cases of severe agricultural damage on an order issued by the MAFF under section 98 of the Agriculture Act 1947.
 
Krizon, some of these laws are ludicrous are they not?
Visit the heart of Dartmoor and you will find rotting animals lying in and at the very source of most of the main rivers for Devon. Cattle, ponies and sheep carcases are frequent, especially duing the winter. Some farmers do go out and check their beasts every day, others do not.
 
Ultimately, as already discussed, the law is the law so, if hunting is banned, you should get banged up if you do it, and if it isn't, the anti-hunters will have to accept that.

However, in terms of debating what ''ought'' to be - pointless but fun - I'd say that the main problem with hunting is deriving enjoyment from/turning what we're told is a necessary practical task into a social event.

If foxes have to be killed because they're pests, and hunting really is the most humane way to do it, then ok, but why does every Tarquin and Cressida who owns a pony withing a 50-mile radius have to dress up like something out of Brideshead Revisited and toddle along? :lol:

Or should be all congrate down the nearest abbatoir, get the sandwiches out, open some Pimm's and have a jolly afternoon watching the slaughtering?

You see, going hunting (and making it a social event) is, at best, tasteless, and, at worst, just a ''suspect'' activity for allegedly well balanced human beings to be participating in.

If rural people can see that cock-fighting in inner cities is wrong, why can't they see that turning the culling of foxes into a leisure pursuit is equally out of order?
 
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