Frost vs Dunne

Maxbet said:
His insurance company would surely invalidate it if he was under the influence of alcohol, Jim Crowley did Tylicki no favours with that testimony.
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There is no way they can prove that retrospectively, so wouldn't/shouldn't really be used as evidence. Someone could say no he didn't. . Does beg the question if Crowley thought Gibbons smelt of it that obviously why didn't he tell someone, or was it just a case of he always smelt like that and so didn't see the point, or just didn't want to be the one to tell on a fellow jock? Are/were those sort of tests random, and he got away with it for a lot of occasions it seems, or are all jockeys meant to take one every time? I saw the quote about the urine sample, would sadly suspect he's not the first to have done that.

Bryony in tears at points I saw on a very ineloquent Twitter post by someone who was attending.
 
Maxbet said:
His insurance company would surely invalidate it if he was under the influence of alcohol, Jim Crowley did Tylicki no favours with that testimony.
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I didn't quite get where he was coming from Max until I really thought about it. He stated Gibbons was stinking of drink on one hand and the other claimed he showed no sign of being drunk.

When you think logically though what's a jury going to think.

If someone is stinking with drink because they were drinking the previous night or into the wee small hours

Then goes to bed and later that day jump in their car what's the chances they would pass a breathalyser?

I reckon the testimony was pretty damning and Crowley would probably have been coached not to come straight out with "I think he was drunk"

I am not a lawyer but I think a statement like that can backfire on a prosecuter.

I'd be happy to bet Gibbons who was a serial drinker is going to lose.
 
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They have this thing called 'evidence' in courtroom scenarios these days, Fist.

Someone saying "He was stinking of drink" is not the same thing as someone having evidence of Gibbons being drunk/over-the-limit.

Chances are the Judge will instruct the jury to ignore those statements when considering their verdict.
 
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That's why I said he would have been coached to create enough doubt in the minds of jurors.

The judge IMO wont tell them to ignore what Crowley said about him reeking of drink because that was a backed up fact.

If he had said in his opinion he was drunk, the judge would have thrown that out in a flash.

As it stands the jury have now got to make their minds up and with his drinking record I think he's fooked mate.
 
granger said:
An alpha dressing room where the senior jockeys did not see fit to stand in

A reflection on them also

This is of course based on the premise that what is being reported is true or even mostly true
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I spent a lot of time in the company of NH Jockeys in the 80's and Guys like Alan Brown, Ron Barry, Mark Dwyer David Goulding, Tony Charlton, Jonjo and Don Nolan never stopped talking the **** out of someone/each other.

Michael Dickingson was a pain in the ass who couldn't take a joke but just about everyone else defended themselves and acceted the fact the dressing room is one tough place.

My point is most of the Jockeys wouldn't come forward and take sides.

However the flashing bit was way beyond a joke but most jockeys would just laugh that off no matter how politically incorret we think it was.

As I wasn't there I have no idea what to think to be honest other than I don't think it should have gone as far as it has and Dunne seems to come across as a bit of a dick.
 
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You might be right, Fist. This is a civil trial, and reference to previous convictions is permitted, it seems.

Is it the case that Gibbons has convictions for being drunk? Has he ever been stood-down at a meeting for failing a breathalyser test (perhaps that might qualify as evidence)? If the answer to both is 'No', then surely it's just hearsay on the part of Crowley in the eyes of the court?
 
His record goes way back. When he was riding with John Quinn he was stood down for a month which was drink related

He was banned 3 or 4 times for drink driving offences then barred for a few years....would have hated to pay his car insurance.

Despite that trainers continued to use him but he was caught on cocaine and then accused of swapping his urine sample with another jockey.

Guy was a walking time bomb but a helluva good jockey. He rode Pevensey and Blthyth Knight wich helped put John Quin on the map.

He also rode that monster of a sprinter for Easterby whos name escapes me.

We used to call him the George Best of racing
 
That perhaps does put a slightly different angle on things.

Unsurprisingly, I'd never heard of him until this negligence trial kicked-off.
 
redundant pal said:
I thought Russell didn’t take a drink?

The only horse outside of Frodon was Santini who needed daylight for obvious reasons.

If he watched the race he’ll see Sheehan continually tried to get up Frodon’s inside only for Bryony to close the gap. Indeed he almost clipped heels with Frodon before the turn in. She intentionally left a gap to invite them up her inside knowing full well she had the horse to close it as she was dictating the pace.

Pure rubbish.
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I wrote the above after the King George last year - I see Sheehan referenced this aspect of Bryony's riding in his statement:

“He said on occasion Ms Frost does silly things and doesn’t care about the other jockeys in the race but that she is a brilliant jockey. She often lines up wide and all of a sudden wheels her way in.”

However, when further questioned by the BHA’s John Dunne on September 27 this year, Sheehan said: “In addition I also told Mr Watts that after the race I was going to see the stewards to suggest to them that they speak to Ms Frost about her riding, but I saw that John Flint was waiting to see them so I left it.”

Incidentally I think it's a clever style of riding to leave a gap to invite others to have a go and then close it when they try but it appears to irk some of her weighroom colleagues.

I think she also is a a superior rider (especially over fences) to both Sheehan and Scudamore.
 
barjon said:
If Luke means today’s article - She was questioned although in the dock - and it wasn’t comfortable viewing - I can’t see how it was horrendous. It is, after all, about Bryony’s evidence in court so bound to reflect that side of the story.
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I was referring to RP dated 1/12/21 page 2-Motorhead not even pretending to be impartial.
 
redundant pal said:
Incidentally I think it's a clever style of riding to leave a gap to invite others to have a go and then close it when they try but it appears to irk some of her weighroom colleagues.
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Both Ruby Walsh and Fitzgerald would commend such race-riding tactics.
 
Grasshopper said:
That perhaps does put a slightly different angle on things.

Unsurprisingly, I'd never heard of him until this negligence trial kicked-off.
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I only knew him because he rode for John Quinn who rode for me over the jumps several times

John got married to Tony Charlton's widow when he died and eventually took over running Bellwood Cottages

2 years later Gibbons won the Lincoln on Blythe Kninght at Redcar and 3 other major races for John plus he won at Royal Ascot for him.

I'm really surprised you don't remember him he won the Gimcrack a few years later and was on the go for years.

Despite his bad rep re drink he was like the **** of the north with Yorkshire based trainers,

Mind you grassy I never knew Ryan Moore was Goerge Moores son and Joshua and Jamie was his brothers until a few months ago.


Don't know about you but in the last 20 years I have gone from 60% jumps 40% flat to 95% jumps and 5% flat.

The only thing that has really caught my attention on the flat is Zenyatta dancing :lol:
 
Mmm, the evidence from the fence attendant guy sounded pretty convincing, much more so than the wishy-washy stuff pouring out of the weighing room. Hope they can live with their consciences.
 
No doubt about it barjon the weighing room is a tight knit community and they rarely turn against each other.

Just about everything goes and the attitude is defo if you cant stand the heat...bla bla bal

I've seen first hand 6 or 7 jockeys having a go at one guy for fun but the next day he would be one of the 6 or 7 sticking it to someone else.

What else would you expect from men who wear womens tights in the winter :lol:
 
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