Hatton's Grace Hurdle

Catch me looks too short for this imo, he still has a fair bit to find on official ratings and not sure it the ground is soft enough for him. Surely too short for kazal and brave inca will probably need the run so hardy could be the one to beat. Muirhead e/w might be the way to go here.
 
I think at the minimum trip he would find it hard in a champion hdl. Horses like SE, Binocular and a few others are all on the up while BI while still competitive can't roll back the years

There are plenty of 2m4f or 3m races where he may be more suited
 
2 miles at Cheltenham is a stiff test..normally takes a horse that stays 2.5.....most of the pretenders like Binocular are so hyped its unreal..HE hammered two apparent champ potentials the other week..piss poor hurdling title to win I would have thought...BI has what most of them haven't..battling qualities.

BI and Binocular at the last flight level...who wins?...easy answer
 
For a horse turning 11 who has been off the track for over a year to rediscover form of 2006, I would think 16/1 is a fair price

This is by no means to demean his showing today which was a magnificent showing. Id be very interested if he was to go the staying route
 
Theres more than just Binocular around though. You could say Sublimity and Brave Inca at the last flight level, who wins ? easy answer ?
Or Hardy Eustace, Harchibald and Brave Inca at the last flight level, who wins? easy answer ?

It's not like Brave Inca has never been beaten in a battle at Cheltenham.

Turning around the form with the not-mighty Catch Me, now he has a run under his belt, is not going to be nearly enough to secure a second Champion.

Nice to see him back though.
 
I'm sure Cantoris said the horse was giving every indication to suggest he was as good as ever and had benefited from the break. Logic tells me he can't win a Champion too (which I'm sure he'll be pleased to hear given that I've consistantly called him wrong throughout his career), even if I think the current cohort isn't too special.

If you check his dosage out though, you might get a surprise (I know connections are well aware of it). Given that there are only a couple of genuine grade 1 staying hurdlers about, and the rest are largely phonies you'd give him a better chance here than at 2 miles. It's normally the case that the race is run at a bit of a crawl anyway (comparatively), and isn't the lickety spit type 'tapes to post' you get with the chasing equvilant. A horse with a bit of 2 mile ability could easily be competitve off a jog and sprint 3 miles. As EC says, to win a champion hurdle, you normaly need to be capable of running 2 and a half miles as people understimate time and time again just how much stamina is needed to win a championship 2 mile race due to the speed they're normally run at. The staying hurdle division by contrast is a complete anomoly, although the 2008 renewal was one of the fastest ironically.

I'm sure when he flopped at Punchestown when he was stepped up, that was the race he picked up the injury in? I'm sure Cantoris will confirm this one way or the other? Either way, I should think he and 'winning ways' must be highly delighted to have their horse back and enjoying himself again. Good luck folks
 
Cleeve Hurdle with no penalty?

Champion Hurdles have be regained after they've been lost a couple of times, but I can't think its ever been done with a two year separation between wins
 
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Theres more than just Binocular around though.

is there?

harchibald?...are you kidding?..battler?...think BI wins that battle

HE...still think BI wins that one...just

Sublimity?..not renowned for being a battler...more like hoping they go way too fast and he cruises through..only way he won the one he did

not really much else is there?

yet anyway

binocular is way over hyped
 
harchibald?...are you kidding?..battler?...think BI wins that battle

HE...still think BI wins that one...just

Sublimity?..not renowned for being a battler...
Click to expand...




But EC1 , it happened!

You were quick to condemn the current crop of hurdlers, intimating that Brave Inca simply has to outbattle Binocular above any others whilst overlooking his Champion Hurdle defeats to Hardy Eustace and Harchibald, and more recently to Sublimity.

I'm not at all saying that Harchibald or Sublimity are great battlers, but that being a battler was not enough to save the noble Brave Inca on those days against those horses.

It is likely there will be tougher contenders than that tempremental pair or Binocular come the day, four years on from his first placing in the race. Good luck to the horse but aiming at other targets would surely be wise.
 
things can always happen UG..of course they can..but % call says that at the moment BI looks a real contender seeing as he won't have been A1 today

no..I don't think we do have a very crop of hurdlers...maybe it's because the best trainers here like Nicholls prefer top chasers to hurdlers...whereas in Ireland they love both...so we now really have to rely on just over the water to supply all the good hurdlers.

who knows...but Night Nurse/Sea Pigeon/Monksfield it certainly isn't at the mo

people my age have been spoiled by that era I would suspect as well...they were good days
 
Just back in from the races, great effort from both Brave Inca and trainer Colm Murphy. Delighted to see him back and in such good form.
 
I think that's a bit of a mis-read of the facts Goober (even though at face value they are as you describe). Personally, I wouldn't under estimate the difference made by AP McCoy in a finish. Barry Cash rode him to third when he went down by half a length to a Hardy Eustace who was at the top of his game, and a neck to Harchibald. You might argue that Cash was on board when he out battled War of Attrition to get a neck verdict in the Supreme, but they were both novices of equal standing. At the time he was taking on Hardy et al, he was in first seaon out of novice company, and the other two horses were probably entitled to be slightly better in terms of natural development anyway being closer to their peaks.

Leaving that aside, a few weeks later at Punchestown with McCoy in the plate the neck defeat to Harchibald had been turned around to a head victory. It is therefore quite possible that the horse remained essentially the same animal, putting in the same effort, but when margins are so tight, as they were in this case, McCoy was able to squeeze that bit more out that made the difference between the horse being considered gutsy, and being considered a valiant bridesmaid. I think we can over-state jockeyship, but at the apex where margins are fine this can make the difference. Its my best guess that Brave Inca probably put in a similar amount of effort in both runs, its just that McCoy's urgings were enough to get him to go to the bottom of an empty well, and find an extra quarter of a length in a fighting run in.

The next year of course was Inca's second open season, and I know they thought hard about going novice chasing. I'm sure Cantoris has said that AP's input although not decissive, was instrumental in their eventual decision to stay over hurdles. McCoy clearly thought he'd seen something in Inca and from then on he tended to win more of his fighting finishes than he lost.

I note also that it was Ruby Walsh who set up his defeat to Sublimity, with AP having to do a deal that meant him riding Straw Bear. What happened, (and the sections bear this out) is that Hardy and Inca essentially cut each others throats. Other horses fell or broke down when travelling well, whilst others just didn't turn up on the day. It was a very strange renewal, and one which I still think Sublimity inheritted rather than won.
 
UG

I wonder how many times Nurse/Pigeon/Birds Nest/Monksfield actually raced against each other..it seemed like every other week a combination of 2 or 3 of the above were meeting each other

do you remember Golden Cygnet?..seemed to remember he beat pigeon when he was just a novice..died at Aintree was it?..last hurdle?
 
Ayr, Scottish Champion Hurdle. I was reading a book a while back where Edward O'Grady was talking about it - I'm not sure he ever quite got over it.
 
Alot !

Monksfield less so, I prepare to be corrected but did he only really come over for Cheltenham and Aintree ?

Night Nurse went chasing after losing his hurdling crown leaving the others to keep old-manning each other for a few more years.

Golden Cygnet died in The Scottish Champion Hurdle at Ayr in a fall at the last, in the process of winning it, after hacking up in the Supreme Novices.
 
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ahh...scottish champion..cheers....i knew it was after Cheltenham...I wonder how good he would have been

I would guess that he fell with Sea Pigeon beaten in that race..which is where I have got that bit from
 
Brave Inca had a great comeback run today. I was getting seriously excited when I saw how well he was going coming into the straight. It even seemed for a few seconds that he and Hardy Eustace might lock horns once more and give us one of their amazing battles to enjoy. Having dealt with that rival fitness told in the end, I think. Assuming he comes out of the race well there should be a bit more to come.

Hardy might have a bit more to give as well, because it's possible that this race came a bit too soon for him after Punchestown.

Without being bullish, Colm Murphy had been quietly positive about Brave Inca in the run up to today's race and got it right. I think his handling of Brave Inca all through his career has been spot on.
 
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