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Heavy ground

E

EC21

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Joined
Jul 5, 2022
Messages
690
Location
Derbyshire
This might sound really silly but I have had this on my mind a bit. I haven't researched it so if it sounds daft then so be it. When watching races in heavy ground, or really soft, the winner, if in front all the way, is not caked in mud. So surely a horse held up caked in mud has carried more weight than it was allotted? My idea is to look for a horse that was held up caked in mud that finishes second has run above its level and is worth watching for a race or two in future. It must be ahead of its mark surely? Thoughts on this? What a great time of the year to ask this when the ground is drying up:). I don't have access to a database at moment, will have to sort that, but even with one it might be hard to put in a query. To anyone who works in racing, what extra weight would someone think a horse + jockey, buried in mud, has carried in extra in weight? Just a topic for chat that might interest, or maybe not.

Not exactly the same, but a few years ago I noticed that a horse who ran near the rail on the far side at Exeter were running on a lot slower ground than those on the outer. Looks like a bit of a camber on that course on the far side. I noted horses who ran well on that slower side and had some success when they ran again.

Main question though is, does being buried in mud add much weight to the jockey or horse?
 
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I like backing front-runners in heavy ground for that kind of reason. I also have this idea that, tactically, kicking on turning for home in soft/heavy is a good move because it's harder for the others to make up the ground in soft or heavy. I think Charlie Deutsch carries the tactic out well at Ascot on VW* runners.

I suppose if something is held up and finished caked in mud the chances are it's the way it needs to be ridden and will face the same problem again?

(*Venetia Williams, not Volkswagen...)
 
EC21 said:
Main question though is, does being buried in mud add much weight to the jockey or horse?
Click to expand...

According to the Brigadier Gerard 'biography', one spring morning it started raining heavily just as BG was about to do an important gallop. His lead was an older horse, a Group race winner, if memory serves. The other jockeys in the gallop were wearing silks but because it was chilly Joe Mercer was wearing his woollen top.

BG, giving the lead horse weight, picked it up effortlessly and shot away from it. JM weighed in afterwards and found he was a stone heavier than planned. According to the book, that was when they knew they had the 2000G winner.
 
So do they shake down before weighing back in? because if it's enough to slow the horse down, the jockey, would fail the weigh in!
 
Well obviously easier in person! But bigger flatter feet plus a knee action usually guarantees they will cope with heavy better than those with small, narrow feet.
 
I remember some years ago backing the Sheik Mohamed pace maker, at Ascot I think, named Wolfhound because he had feet like a camel.
Won at 25/1.
 
You're certainly correct about horses ending up carrying more when in behind EC. That said they won't be carrying as much as a pound more I wouldn't think. It would only make a difference in a very close finish perhaps.

I think front runners in heavy ground only really benefit if they handle conditions and can either grind it out or set a moderate pace and win when others struggle to pick up. All very obvious really, and those same factors are in place under any going description.

Jinny is certainly right. Big feet can help, as does a noticeable round action. But I think Walsworth has nailed it when he says the best course of action is to keep your money in your pocket!

Good to see you back by the way. And even more so without the 2am sherbets! :drink:😂
 
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