Hennessy

Carruthers might not be a great yardstick but I do think he was one of the horses to take out of the race though. He made one bad blunder but ran well in any case. I'm not sure what type of race they'll find for him but if he were mine I'd send him back to Aintree as he clearly needs a galloping track. He didn't have the legs for them on that ground and on softer going, over 3m, he could saunter home at a track like Aintree. He's on my gg.com notification list!
 
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Bar the Bull said:
It was obviously a good performance.

Just not the earthshattering won that some people are making out.

Beaten 15 lengths.

And Euro, don't give me that claimers stuff. They can claim for a reason.
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A performance of merit absolutely - a Gold Cup winning one?? I doubt it!! I believe it's a two horse race (all staying sound - turning up etc.) Imperial on ground yielding or worse, Kauto on good to yielding or better. It's as simple or complicated as you want it to be!:whistle:
 
on what Denman did last Saturday he would have won any of Best Mastes Gold Cups not to mention first Kautos, Kicking Kings, Cool Dwons or Mr Mulligans....
 
Best Mate will always be enormously underrated by ratings saddos.

I suspect Denman ran to 170-175 max last Saturday and no more - 182 overrates him .
 
sunybay said:
on what Denman did last Saturday he would have won any of Best Mastes Gold Cups not to mention first Kautos, Kicking Kings, Cool Dwons or Mr Mulligans....
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Kauto Star and Kicking King were hardly all out when they won the races you mention. It was a good effort from Denman but I have to agree with those that are calling for calm over it. If you had stopped the race 3 out it would have been a cracking effort but he finished legless and was beaten 14 lengths. There's no doubt on his day he's still good enough to win a Gold Cup, as are Imperial Commander and Kauto Star but I wouldn't be in a hurry to suggest that another 175+ chaser isn't lurking and if there is that could put them well in the mix too. Timeform went 177 for Denman this year, 4 lb below what he got the year before.
 
I cannot see another 170+ horse comming out of the woodwork this season - of what we have witnessed so far this year it would be astonishing improvement required from anything from this side of the sea - the Hennessy was the best chance of seeing could some of the second season novices improve enough and I think the answer to that is a definitive no! Maybe something lurking for next year like Mikael or Finians but we may not see another 170+ staying chaser for quite some time. Let's enjoy these stars and feel as privileged to witness their deeds as their respective greatness deserves.
 
On The Bridle said:
I cannot see another 170+ horse comming out of the woodwork this season - of what we have witnessed so far this year it would be astonishing improvement required from anything from this side of the sea - the Hennessy was the best chance of seeing could some of the second season novices improve enough and I think the answer to that is a definitive no! Maybe something lurking for next year like Mikael or Finians but we may not see another 170+ staying chaser for quite some time. Let's enjoy these stars and feel as privileged to witness their deeds as their respective greatness deserves.
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Ay? :confused:

What was wrong with Diamond Harry or Burton Port's performance?!
 
Not sure I agree that Diamond Harry has no chance in the Gold Cup. He was receiving a lot of weight, but he won well and he may have further improvement in him. If he had been beaten, then I would say different story.

I just have a feeling that this year's GC winner might not have to run to as high a rating as the last few have done. I think it's still fairly open actually.
 
Should have said, got Diamond Harry completely wrong, well done to his followers. With the novice form of last year holding up nicely it makes Long Run's effort all the more disappointing and even more so that Weapons Amnesty is out for the year.
 
Bar the Bull said:
It was obviously a good performance.

Just not the earthshattering won that some people are making out.

Beaten 15 lengths.

And Euro, don't give me that claimers stuff. They can claim for a reason.
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Diamond Harry had to run 7lb better than his previous best and Burton Port 12lb better (on RPRs) to get Denman beat. One of them was always liable to do it... two of them did. However, both beat Denman by the best part of a stone (as Denman was deemed to have run right up to his OR of 182 and only a little below his very best).

So while perhaps not earth-shattering (I would agree) it does put Denman just about where he should be to win back the Gold Cup. To beat him something else would have to run to about the mid-180s and there aren’t too many capable of that at Cheltenham. Of course (other than Kauto Star) the one horse that is virtually up to this is Imperial Commander, who also ran to 182 when beating Denman last time.
 
On The Bridle said:
How many Gold Cup winners have won that seasons Gold Cup after carrying 10st odd in the Hennessy?
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How many Hennessy's have had the top weight running of 182? Since Arkle, i'd guess none. Your point would be valid in a normal year but given that he beat Denman 14 lengths, that doesn't give him that much to make up. He beat the rest of the field comfortably with the exception of Burton Port.

I don't think you can just rule him out because he was carrying 10st.
 
On The Bridle said:
I cannot see another 170+ horse comming out of the woodwork this season - of what we have witnessed so far this year it would be astonishing improvement required from anything from this side of the sea -
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One of the main reasons I backed Diamond Harry for the Hennessy was that he was a 160+ Hurdler who looked like he had the scope to be as good over fences.
So with Punchestowns being a 170+ Hurdler a couple of years back it surely wouldn't be that much of a surprise if he turned out to be that fly in the ointment for the big three. I liked the way he recovered his composure after making a big mistake in his penultimate run of last season at Sandown and with a little more experience I think he'll be in the mix come March.
 
Euronymous said:
One of the main reasons I backed Diamond Harry for the Hennessy was that he was a 160+ Hurdler who looked like he had the scope to be as good over fences.
So with Punchestowns being a 170+ Hurdler a couple of years back it surely wouldn't be that much of a surprise if he turned out to be that fly in the ointment for the big three. I liked the way he recovered his composure after making a big mistake in his penultimate run of last season at Sandown and with a little more experience I think he'll be in the mix come March.
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Possibly wishful thinking but from a betting point of view I'd like to see Punchestowns in a handicap like the RP Trophy next February. At the moment he's rated low enough to get in off near top weight. Two best wins have come on right handed tracks (Ascot Dec 08 & San Feb 10) and Kempton might be the track he needs to show his best. Maybe he'll follow Nacarat last season with a run in the KG and then hopefully the RP Trophy? I don't think he's the fly in the ointment of the big three tbh but then you are the man in form!
 
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Euronymous said:
One of the main reasons I backed Diamond Harry for the Hennessy was that he was a 160+ Hurdler who looked like he had the scope to be as good over fences.
So with Punchestowns being a 170+ Hurdler a couple of years back it surely wouldn't be that much of a surprise if he turned out to be that fly in the ointment for the big three. I liked the way he recovered his composure after making a big mistake in his penultimate run of last season at Sandown and with a little more experience I think he'll be in the mix come March.
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Yes Punchestowns is indeed the one I've got my eye on as the most likely to spoil the Denman/Imperial Commander return match (Kauto aside, who I have my doubts about at Cheltenham). While Punchestowns jumping is good on the whole (a bit deliberate, which is no bad thing at Cheltenham), he is prone to throw in the odd howler. Hopefully they can iron these out.
 
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