Horse Racing and its relationship with Foxhunting

[Bachelors Hall]

I’ve made this post for two reasons;-

1) It’s been a while since the relationship has been discussed on these boards.

2) While the potential participation of Victoria Pendleton at this year’s Cheltenham Festival has been widely promoted as a means of attracting a fresh band of followers to the sport, little has been mentioned of the fact that her grounding has been a baptism of the blood of cute fluffy foxes. (For what it’s worth, an arbitrary google search of “victoria pendleton””fox hunting” provides nothing tangible nor coherent.)

I have my own opinions on the matter but I’d sooner leave it open for whomever reads this to discuss. Should one not wish to discuss then the poll is anonymous as far as I’m aware.

 

[trudij]

Well aside from anything else, hunting with hounds to get a kill has been illegal in the UK for a long time now, so you need to re-word your post, there will have been no baptism of the "blood of cute fluffy foxes" because that's not happening ( via the hounds!) any more and hasn't since the Tony Blair days.

Secondly - that's a cop out, I don't think you should put up a post with the potential to be inflammatory like this and then run away without putting your opinion forward ( though the fact that you called them "cute, fluffy foxes" suggests you are firmly in the disney camp) that's just cowardly

Thirdly - any feelings about hunting legally or illegally aside - the hunting field is a superb place for any rider to learn and improve, so I sincerely hope she has been able to get out hunting and will continue to do so

 

[BennyB]

Well aside from anything else, hunting with hounds to get a kill has been illegal in the UK for a long time now, so you need to re-word your post, there will have been no baptism of the "blood of cute fluffy foxes" because that's not happening ( via the hounds!) any more and hasn't since the Tony Blair days.

Secondly - that's a cop out, I don't think you should put up a post with the potential to be inflammatory like this and then run away without putting your opinion forward ( though the fact that you called them "cute, fluffy foxes" suggests you are firmly in the disney camp) that's just cowardly

Thirdly - any feelings about hunting legally or illegally aside - the hunting field is a superb place for any rider to learn and improve, so I sincerely hope she has been able to get out hunting and will continue to do so

What she said.

 

[Bachelors Hall]

Well aside from anything else, hunting with hounds to get a kill has been illegal in the UK for a long time now, so you need to re-word your post, there will have been no baptism of the "blood of cute fluffy foxes" because that's not happening ( via the hounds!) any more and hasn't since the Tony Blair days.

If you can guarantee that not a single fox has lost it's life during the course of a "hunt" (with or without the assistance of a hound) since 2005 then I will bake a biscuit and personally deliver it to you.

Secondly - that's a cop out, I don't think you should put up a post with the potential to be inflammatory like this and then run away without putting your opinion forward ( though the fact that you called them "cute, fluffy foxes" suggests you are firmly in the disney camp) that's just cowardly

Not at all. As the OP, my role is that of a passive conversation starter. I worded the OP as carefully as I could so as not to persuade opinion. Nevertheless, as (I hope) all reading said OP will already have pre-formed opinions on the matter, it is rather insulting of you to suggest they could be swayed by such delicate and playful wording.

Thirdly - any feelings about hunting legally or illegally aside - the hunting field is a superb place for any rider to learn and improve, so I sincerely hope she has been able to get out hunting and will continue to do so

I have no qualms with this statement whatsoever.

 

[trudij]

Of course I can't ( and won't even try!) guarantee none have been killed and nor do I have to - the killing of a fox is still legal, it's just the way it is done now has been made to change. Obviously accidents happen and with the way the world is now, the propaganda artists shout loudest. I'll still have the biscuit though, I'm at work and haven't had breakfast yet, there wasn't time

I very much doubt anyone will be swayed by your wording - in my experience of both sides of the fence, nobody can be swayed - although the more normal humans on both sides do at least listen to the other. ( before declaring it total rubbish and carrying on as they were!)



( I can't do the multiple quote thing at all !!)

 

[Bachelors Hall]

Your blatant disingenuity pertaining to the "wholesomeness" of any untimely demise of many an innocent, free roaming creature notwithstanding... I'm happy to go along with your assertion that;-

the propaganda artists shout loudest.

You still don't get a biscuit Though I will give you a "Thanks" for being the first to engage

As for part two of the reason why I posted this thread (this is for everybody btw), why hasn't the very tangible link between Foxhunting and Victoria Pendleton's venture into our sport been made apparent in the many establishment endorsed press releases?

Is the sport trying to hide the fact?

Is the sport not really interested in the fact?

Would the public react any differently either way?

Ifandbutwhynot...

 

[trudij]

Lol - I doubt anyone really cares, most people who comment about it seem to be too wound up about this imaginary glut of people she's apparently pushed out of getting rides.

I don't think the link can be denied at all, but I think it's so far in the past ( apart from the horses who go out to either sweeten up or to qualify for pointing) that it's not really considered linked at all. I could well be wrong though ( and probably am!)

 

[Grasshopper]

As a city-boy, I don't believe it is my place to pass comment on fox-hunting, as I have insufficient knowledge of rural matters......and I have no intention of preaching to those who better understand them, because that would make me nothing more than a townie cu*nt.

All I know is that if I find a fox in my garden, I will try incredibly hard to maim it with a 7-iron or a half-Niddrie, given the chance.

Fu*ck them all, is my attitude, the little ginger bas*tards.

 

[BennyB]

A few points:

Foxes are vermin. You can do what you like with them in the city - leave milk out for them or whatever - but here in the countryside they need to be controlled because of the damage they do to livestock.

There are a number of ways of doing this. Shooting is OK but you have to be a very good shot with a rifle to get a clean kill. Blasting away with a shotgun is more likely to lead to maiming and a painful death. Trapping and poisoning are extremely cruel. Which leaves hunting - the traditional way. A quick death, plus hunting naturally is more likely to kill the weaker/older foxes. These are more likely to cause problems with livestock as they are less able to hunt wild animals themselves.

I can see why some people find it unpalatable, but that should be no reason to ban something. The ban is impossible to justify on animal welfare grounds and is a badly thought-out piece of class warfare.

Turning to racing, clearly national hunt racing has close historical links with hunting - the clue's in the name. A great many racing people are also hunting people, and want the ties with hunting to remain.

I am one of those people.

 

[wilsonl]

As a city-boy, I don't believe it is my place to pass comment on fox-hunting, as I have insufficient knowledge of rural matters......and I have no intention of preaching to those who better understand them, because that would make me nothing more than a townie cu*nt.

All I know is that if I find a fox in my garden, I will try incredibly hard to maim it with a 7-iron or a half-Niddrie, given the chance.

Fu*ck them all, is my attitude, the little ginger bas*tards.

:lol:

I'm pretty much in the same position as Grass, although I did like Basil Brush as a kid so the sentimental side of me would probably result in a sand wedge rather than a 7 iron. Less back swing.

 

[Len Madeiros]

A few points:

Foxes are vermin. You can do what you like with them in the city - leave milk out for them or whatever - but here in the countryside they need to be controlled because of the damage they do to livestock.

There are a number of ways of doing this. Shooting is OK but you have to be a very good shot with a rifle to get a clean kill. Blasting away with a shotgun is more likely to lead to maiming and a painful death. Trapping and poisoning are extremely cruel. Which leaves hunting - the traditional way. A quick death, plus hunting naturally is more likely to kill the weaker/older foxes. These are more likely to cause problems with livestock as they are less able to hunt wild animals themselves.

I can see why some people find it unpalatable, but that should be no reason to ban something. The ban is impossible to justify on animal welfare grounds and is a badly thought-out piece of class warfare.

Turning to racing, clearly national hunt racing has close historical links with hunting - the clue's in the name. A great many racing people are also hunting people, and want the ties with hunting to remain.

I am one of those people.

It's not an efficient way to kill a fox when the massive hunt comes back with no kill.

And all that bollox from the pro-hunt people that they would have to kill all their dogs and horses if the ban came into force: drag hunts are thriving now, despite the ban on killing the fox.

Yes, an unpalatable practice is a very good reason to ban something. Our sensibilities do change and our tolerance of what has happened before means that the world we live and its "traditional ways" change, too.

 

[Diamond Geezer]

I thought jumping (steeple chasing) originated from racing from steeple to steeple, nothing to do with chasing wild animals.

I've voted for Anti Foxhunting - Horse Racing should distance itself bloodsports. I don't see that having a connection with bloodsports helps racing in the public eye at all as regards it's image, probably damages it to some degree. I was a country boy, married into a farming family (my late mother in law was secretary of the local hunt and my late father in law held a lawn meet on his farm once a year) so have seen first hand foxes and stags being ripped apart I don't understand how any human being could be a party to that, however I'm not one of these anti hunt protestor types, I just leave that to their own conscience and trust in karma one day.


edit.......and don't tell me it doesn't happen these days

 

[Frankel]

I would have the urge to batter any c**t who thinks it's humane to hunt down a fox in this way.

Fu**ing Tw*ts

 

[BennyB]

It's not an efficient way to kill a fox when the massive hunt comes back with no kill.

And all that bollox from the pro-hunt people that they would have to kill all their dogs and horses if the ban came into force: drag hunts are thriving now, despite the ban on killing the fox.

Yes, an unpalatable practice is a very good reason to ban something. Our sensibilities do change and our tolerance of what has happened before means that the world we live and its "traditional ways" change, too.

There are loads of things I find unpalatable, but provided they don't harm anyone I don't think they should be banned. This is supposed to be a free country.

Halal slaughter is barbaric, but try getting that banned...

There are no animal welfare arguments which justify the hunting ban. It's legislation designed to punish so-called toffs for being toffs. Even the odious Blair admits it was a mistake.

 

[BennyB]

I would have the urge to batter any c**t who thinks it's humane to hunt down a fox in this way.

Fu**ing Tw*ts

I love a good reasoned debate.

 

[Frankel]

I love a good reasoned debate.

The key word here is 'humane'. It clearly is not.

And yes halal should be banned.

 

[Grasshopper]

'Humane' refers to humans......it's extension to animals is and always will be anomalous.

When anti-fox hunters stop wearing leather-shoes and jackets, and go vegan - then I might think they are credible. Until they do so, I will continue to consider their position to be selective and contradictory in equal measure.

 

[Digger]

well aside from anything else, hunting with hounds to get a kill has been illegal in the uk for a long time now, so you need to re-word your post, there will have been no baptism of the "blood of cute fluffy foxes" because that's not happening ( via the hounds!) any more and hasn't since the tony blair days.

Secondly - that's a cop out, i don't think you should put up a post with the potential to be inflammatory like this and then run away without putting your opinion forward ( though the fact that you called them "cute, fluffy foxes" suggests you are firmly in the disney camp) that's just cowardly

thirdly - any feelings about hunting legally or illegally aside - the hunting field is a superb place for any rider to learn and improve, so i sincerely hope she has been able to get out hunting and will continue to do so

nail on head!

 

[trudij]

It depends on your way of defining humane. I think a quick death at the jaws of a hound much more humane for any animal ( the onus on being quick!) than the alternatives - there are few marksmen good enough to shoot them and kill first time, trapping a wild animal is wrong on too many levels and wouldn't be viable to have people employed to check the traps often enough to not cause significant suffering or to make sure the correct animal is caught and gassing is just indiscriminate, slow and wrong. ( IMO)

If there was a. better way, I'd be all for that - but I genuinely think that there isn't at the moment.

 

[Digger]

I would have the urge to batter any c**t who thinks it's humane to hunt down a fox in this way.

Fu**ing Tw*ts

Its a fox...im really not that fussed. I also love Hare Coursing a noble sport ruined by those that are worried about the fluffy bunnies.

 

[Roddy Owen]

Pity the fox cant fly really

 

[Digger]

Its at points like this that I always wonder.... "What does the fox say"

For the answer just tap that into youtube and enjoy your day.

 

[clivex]

It's not an efficient way to kill a fox when the massive hunt comes back with no kill.

And all that bollox from the pro-hunt people that they would have to kill all their dogs and horses if the ban came into force: drag hunts are thriving now, despite the ban on killing the fox.

Yes, an unpalatable practice is a very good reason to ban something. Our sensibilities do change and our tolerance of what has happened before means that the world we live and its "traditional ways" change, too.

totally agree

well put

If this repulsive spectacle has to continue then the contest should be evened out with a pack of starving lions set after the the red coated twits. Stumble at a fence, screams and a contented big cat having a rather nice lunch. Fox pissing itself laughing

 

[granger]

It's not for me.

If that's how a certain class get their kicks, they should open their minds to new things

 

[BennyB]

Might have known this would drag Clive out from his den for a sensible and measured contribution.

It's nothing to do with class Granger - it's a total misconception that hunting is for toffs. In my experience it attracts people from all walks of life.