I Didn't Know What To Say!

I don't think anyone goes to University now for a jolly with tuition fees rising all the time. As for contributions from tax payers, surely that is how we improve our society - by having more educated people in it. I have no problem subsidising students, although as I have already said, the amount now really is negligible. Any other stance for me would smack of pulling the ladder up behind me.
 
Originally posted by krizon@Jun 16 2007, 12:41 AM
But in fairness, Dar WAS the capital until 1996, so folks who aren't regular Africa-watchers can be forgiven for not knowing that the capital was switched to Dodoma then. Right, for ten points, then, we (possibly) all know that the 'Tan' bit of Tanzania's name comes from its previous moniker, Tanganyika. (You didn't?) So - without Wikepeding or Lonely Planetting - what does the 'zania' derive from?
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Anything to do with Zanzibar?

Dodoma is the legislative capital and Dar es Salaam is the executive capital.
 
As for uni & students, I get the impression students work a lot more at uni than I ever did. Certainly my daughter and her friends at Glasgow and my nieces (Glasgow & Edinburgh) take/took their studies extremely seriously.

I do think it's too easy to get into uni these days and too many 'universities' are little more than polytechs but one maybe is the result of the other.

I needed certain levels from school to get into Glasgow. If I didn't, the pecking order was then St Andrews and Edinburgh, then Herriot Watt and Strathclyde. Now we have Glasgow Caledonian, Paisley, Bell, etc., all former 'technical colleges' but now with university status.

I think you'll probably find it's in the 'new' unis that the dropout rates are highest but, like PDJ, I think it's only right that we give young people the chance to further themselves.
 
When I went to university, it was in the days (yes, forumites, back in the dim and distant past....) when only 6% of the population were considered academically bright enough to go there, we had streaming in the education system and an Honours degree actually meant something.

Your parents were means tested to see how much they could afford but many, many students went to Uni on full grants and it was just about possible then (as long as you worked through your vacs) to actually live on the grant.

It was a clear case of the Government of the day investing in the youth that in the main (of course there are always dossers) wanted to get an education and get on in life. Students dropped out but it wasn't a common occurrence - unlike now, when it is socially acceptable to chuck it all in because "I don't like it...."

I believe I was one of the last intake to benefit from the system - which did have flaws, no question - before comprehensive education flooded the country.

If we had had, then, a proper respect for a fellow citizen's ability - whether they be a barrister or plumber, doctor or electrician - ie, whether academically able or with a gift to be practical, then the 'old' system would have been more successful. Sadly, it was riddled with class prejudice (as well as racial prejudice) and it was a necessary progression to go comprehensive - if only to make us all realise that not everyone has the same abilities and that this needs to be addressed!

I do see some attempt has been made to redress the balance but while we have a system that is hell-bent in keeping 16 - 18 yos in 'education' in order to spin the unemployment figures and while we devalue voacational training by poor salaries and career prospects, then we get what we deserve and their will be lazy, part-time lecturers continuing to 'teach' our kids useless subjects which then get glorified with the title 'degree'.

Yours

Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells
 
I don't see that comprehensive education is a reason, unless the experience south of the border is significantly different from up here in Scotland. the comprehensive system up here has been a major success.
 
I think you're right DO - the dumbing down of universities probably did start with the rebranding of polytechnics as universities. They also seem to offer "degrees" in anything you want them to from the sublime to the ridiculous - IMO so the government can harp on about more kids being given a chance at an education (in what?!?) and to create new jobs, probably for those "university" leavers who have no other job to go into as they only hold a tossy "degree". But hold on, they can be a lecturer in their tossy subject instead! Going round in circles isn't it? shrug::

I have no problem (as I said before) in educating more people in society - but is this really happening? I mean, is it please? Anyone who is deluding themselves that society is benefiting as a result as the increased Higher Education intake is churning out highly educated, intelligent people is surely living in cloud cuckoo land? Doesn't today's appalling literacy problems (for starters) point to that being a misnomer? Kids aren't being taught properly anymore - probably because the teachers themselves that are coming through now don't know what they are teaching in the first place (as they were taught no better themselves) and if truth were told, probably shouldn't be in a position to teach in the first place in an ideal world. God only knows what illiterate idiots will be churned out of teacher training colleges in the coming years to "teach" the future generations, not least as the powers that be have seemingly decided that such inaccuracies as spelling and grammar mistakes shouldn't be penalised in exams - it beggars belief! Even when I was at school there were idiots with teaching qualifications - my A level Biology teacher can only have been in her mid twenties and when we were on the biochemistry module she asked me to take over the teaching of the lesson on free radicals because "you're studying Chemistry also so you know all about them whereas I don't know anything about them" :suspect:
 
One of my proudest ever days, SL, was that leisurely drive with my son in our caravan to begin his degree in a former Polytechnic near Glasgow. I remember stopping off at Ayr for a couple of hours to attend a protest against fox hunting in Scotland. Happy days.
 
I think you're right DO - the dumbing down of universities probably did start with the rebranding of polytechnics as universities. They also seem to offer "degrees" in anything you want them to from the sublime to the ridiculous - IMO so the government can harp on about more kids being given a chance at an education (in what?!?) and to create new jobs, probably for those "university" leavers who have no other job to go into as they only hold a tossy "degree". But hold on, they can be a lecturer in their tossy subject instead! Going round in circles isn't it?

I have no problem (as I said before) in educating more people in society - but is this really happening? I mean, is it please? Anyone who is deluding themselves that society is benefiting as a result as the increased Higher Education intake is churning out highly educated, intelligent people is surely living in cloud cuckoo land? Doesn't today's appalling literacy problems (for starters) point to that being a misnomer? Kids aren't being taught properly anymore - probably because the teachers themselves that are coming through now don't know what they are teaching in the first place (as they were taught no better themselves) and if truth were told, probably shouldn't be in a position to teach in the first place in an ideal world. God only knows what illiterate idiots will be churned out of teacher training colleges in the coming years to "teach" the future generations, not least as the powers that be have seemingly decided that such inaccuracies as spelling and grammar mistakes shouldn't be penalised in exams - it beggars belief! Even when I was at school there were idiots with teaching qualifications - my A level Biology teacher can only have been in her mid twenties and when we were on the biochemistry module she asked me to take over the teaching of the lesson on free radicals because "you're studying Chemistry also so you know all about them whereas I don't know anything about them"
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This is plagiarism. This whole post has been stolen from the internet.

Have an A*

Whatever one of those is meant to be.
 
Originally posted by Shadow Leader@Jun 16 2007, 09:18 AM
Doesn't today's appalling literacy problems (for starters) point to that being a misnomer?
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This is a myth.

Literacy problems are at their lowest of all time. I have several ex-primary school mates who really struggle with reading and writing but in nearly 30 years' teaching experience the only pupils with such problems are those who'd have been sent to 'special' schools before the comprehensive system.

I do accept, though, that fewer at the top end of the ability scale are as accurate in grammar and spelling as in previous generations but society needs to recognise that there's no point in being able to spell and put sentences together if the knowledge and understanding of the subject matter isn't there.

I don't need my doctor to be able to spell 'diarrhoea' correctly so long as he can stop me from spouting sh*te :)
 
Originally posted by Irish Stamp@Jun 15 2007, 08:50 PM

There was no mountain ranges, sea levels etc on my course, lots of socialism, social exclusion, economics, feminst geography and housing though :)
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Feminist geography!! My speciality! :P
I'm in the human geography department which is a lot like social science except that we look at issues from a spatial perspective. I recently completed some work on the use of space by horses in the wild and how this is utilised in natural horsemanship methods (hoping it will be published soon so watch this space......). I'm presently doing a literature review for my PhD. A lot of it is quite abstract in terms of looking at the relational space between horses and humans, and the relationship between the mind and the body, but while I really enjoy enagaging with the theory I think it is very important to produce stuff that can be used, in my case i'm hoping to produce work that the Riding for the Disabled Association can use to increase funding.
I have to do a bit of teaching of the first year undergrads, including marking their exams and so on. I would say that the first year is pretty easy to get through - most students seem to turn up to my seminars hungover :rolleyes: but after that there is a lot of hard work involved, its certainly not an easy ride.
 
Originally posted by Shadow Leader@Jun 16 2007, 10:18 AM
Kids aren't being taught properly anymore - probably because the teachers themselves that are coming through now don't know what they are teaching in the first place (as they were taught no better themselves) and if truth were told, probably shouldn't be in a position to teach in the first place in an ideal world. God only knows what illiterate idiots will be churned out of teacher training colleges in the coming years to "teach" the future generations, not least as the powers that be have seemingly decided that such inaccuracies as spelling and grammar mistakes shouldn't be penalised in exams - it beggars belief! Even when I was at school there were idiots with teaching qualifications - my A level Biology teacher can only have been in her mid twenties and when we were on the biochemistry module she asked me to take over the teaching of the lesson on free radicals because "you're studying Chemistry also so you know all about them whereas I don't know anything about them" :suspect:
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I don't understand the relevance of her age. After a 3 or 4 year degree course, teachers will be starting at 22 or 23. Age has no impact of quality of teaching. I know first year teachers who are excellent and 30 year veterans who are rubbish.

Also, literacy standards amongst teachers is perfectly fine. What basis do you use for accusing them of not knowing what they are teaching or being illiterate (save the one example you have made)? Criticising the profession when you have no experience of it is strange.

Kids aren't being taught properly anymore? Again, what is your basis for this?
 
Epona, you sound like Brian Sewell emoting on an art exhibition - spatial relationships, indeed! :laughing: Please enlighten us as to what a spatial relationship means between horse and man, apart from that when one unexpectedly departs the saddle?
 
One only has to witness the widespread inability in young people to spell, use grammar correctly, (yes, I know I'm not perfect but I'm a darn sight better than a lot of young people today) set out (much less write) a letter, string together a sentence correctly and so on to see that kids are coming out of schools seemingly only partially educated. Basic and general knowledge doesn't seem to be what it used to either and you cannot surely deny that the exams are being dumbed down continually to keep the Government's pass rate tables looking halfway acceptable? You could hardly say that we're being bowled over by intelligent people now, could you?

Ergo, it all points to kids not being taught properly, IMO.
 
If the mispunctuated, ungrammatical, and wrongly spelled (or as some would have it, spelt) offerings on 'Have Your Say' sites are anything to go by, it's hilarious that we're proposing that those pesky furriners should have to know how to write and speak English, when the natives can barely do either! Not just the young, Shadz, but people in their 30s who say they're 'dyslexic' when what they really mean is they have no idea how to spell certain words or when and how to punctuate, even at a basic level. (No, Warbler, not a pop at u m8. Just a cop-out - there cannot be that many real dyslexics in business, just people too darn lazy to learn how to write their own language.)
 
Originally posted by Shadow Leader@Jun 16 2007, 11:50 AM
Ergo, it all points to kids not being taught properly, IMO.
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But it's not just teachers who have the responsibility of teaching children, what about parents? If a child leaves school without satisfactory reading & writing skills, it's hardly all down to their teachers. Teachers are not to blame for teenage kids with ASBO's who refuse to co-operate in lessons, their parents are.
 
Well this was meant to be a discussion about odd degrees and the idea of an i-pod being a musical instrument. :D

It wasn't meant to start a row about education. :shy:
 
I agree totally, Griffin. Unfortunately educating their kids doesn't always appear to be a priority for some parents.
 
Originally posted by Shadow Leader@Jun 16 2007, 10:50 AM
One only has to witness the widespread inability in young people to spell, use grammar correctly, (yes, I know I'm not perfect but I'm a darn sight better than a lot of young people today) set out (much less write) a letter, string together a sentence correctly and so on to see that kids are coming out of schools seemingly only partially educated.
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SL, my father was saying things like this 40 years ago.

You are an intelligent, articulate person partly because of how you were taught at home and in school and partly because you wanted to be able to communicate with fluency and accuracy.

If you went to a selective school, the chances are the majority of your peers were the same but that would represent a very small percentage of everyone your age.

If you went to a comprehensive and were in a mixed ability class, only you and one or two others would have the same attitude but you probably wouldn't have had access to what your peers there were producing. The chances are they were producing work littered with spelling and grammar mistakes but you wouldn't have seen them.

Generally, standards in schools (I admit I can only talk with any degree of authority about Scottish schools) are higher than ever.

The reason? Schools are under more pressure than ever to ensure kids experience high quality teaching and learning. Long gone are the days when a teacher could tell kids to open their books and do the next two pages while he/she sat reading the paper.

While spelling and grammatical accuracy may not be the priority they once were, this is more than compensated for by pupils' other abilities, skills, competencies and knowledge.
 
Something else I've thought of...

When I was at university (over 30 years ago), I was going over a Social Science essay with my tutor. He was explaining to me why he was giving me a very low mark for it (basically, I hadn't read the question properly :what: ) but at the same time he was complimenting me on the quality of my essay and how it would have acheved a very high mark had it been relevant.

He also said he and his colleagues regularly found that students of Modern Languages wrote better essays than those from any other discipline, including English.

He added, "You should see the rubbish we get from Science students as well as our own in Social Sciences. Their spelling is very poor and so is their ability to put a sentence together."

Over 30 years ago...
 
I did learn more about English grammar and sentence construction from studying foreign languages I agree.
 
Epona - that's what my degree is (Human) Geography, even feature on our University website with my lecturer, translator, classmates, Karl Marx and Frederick Engels.

The only exam I had to retake was for the only module I attended absolutely every lecture, seminar and tutorial for - ie. no correlation between attending lectures and passing the module (well at least not in that module in my experience) lol.
 
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