Ignotus/thomas Thompson(10)

By the way does anyone know the kid wasn't told to try and obtain its best possible position.

Its alright everyone having a go at Swinbank but no one here knows the orders given and noone knows anything about the horse.

It would be widely expected after a long time off through injury the trainer would say to the jockey, look after him, get him round safely, dont knock him about, but that doesnt mean stand bolt upright all the way rode, do a little flap and then do nothing on the horse.

The lad may not be a great pilot either. I've seen some jockeys push horses out like that at their strongest.

Everyone is getting on the blame the trainer band waggon but none of us know what Swinbank said to the lad and I'm pretty sure a horse which has come back from a serious injury would never be plotted as a gambling horse.

Headstrong, emailing the trainer, well thats a good idea !!! He wouldn't even acknowledge it and his seceratary would send to spam before he saw it. Basically for all we know Swinbank may have said, look lad dont go knocking him about, drop him in and let him finish his race, main thing is to bring him back sound.

I know from working with horses that horses that have tendon problems you would never risk having a touch on, as they can break down very easily again.

Just cus a yard is deemed a gambling stable doesn't mean every horse is there to land a touch, I think some people forget that and automatically think every horse has its day. That's total bollocks, to have a touch you need a good horse and get it ready in a adequate race. A horse with Tendon problems and long lay offs would certainly not entertain any trainer for a touch, especially a shrewd and well established trainer such as Alan.
 
Well said Chris.

Can I point out again to those who are under the impression that Swinbank didn't support the jockey to the stewards that this is not the case. If Alan Swinbank told the stewards that the jockey had disobeyed instructions then he would not have been fined and the case referred. The comments he made after the enquiry weren't the cleverest but were made in anger after the enquiry and are taken out of context to some degree.
 
Originally posted by rorydelargy@Jan 1 2008, 08:19 PM
Is telling a jockey not to hit his mount cheating? It's an interesting question.
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That's one of the reasons why there should be no whips. It's a bit like allowing performance enhancing drugs to be used but there's no need to inform the public when they are in use.
 
No, I don't know what was said to the jockey, I am only guessing on what I know of the yard. However, Swinbank's comments that the kid should get the fine were out of order and as Chris says, he may just be a poor pilot! It was only his 5th ride and some lads are weak and poor and during a finish can't ride out as their technique isn't great and they are knackered. Also, as I said I haven't seen the race, someone has to play devil's advocate against the ones screaming for the kid's blood though.

As for a yard not having a touch on one who's had "a tendon" - don't you believe it! C'mon Chris, you know better than that - it can and does happen; if you know you have a talented but fragile one, if it comes out of its first race back ok then plenty would have the cash down - before time runs out. Conversely, for the same reason (ie possible limited runs left in them before it goes again) they can be punted on their reappearance run after the lay-off.
 
What I mean Dom is its not ideal to have a touch on a horse that has done a tendon, that I'm sure you will agree with.

I'm not blaming the kid and yes it is harsh for Alan to say the kid should get the fine, but in fairness if alan said look after him, don't be too rough on him but give him one if you can win, then the lad hasn't ridden to orders.

Thing is only 3 people know what orders were given and I doubt any one of them is likely to admit what they were.
 
I know what you're saying, it's not ideal, no, but it happens!!!

Strangely enough I was talking about riding out a finish earlier today during which we were observing that far too many people (usually girls, I have to say!) seem to think that "riding a finish" consists of pushing down on the horse's withers a few times[rather than pushing out towards the ears], during which it really doesn't look like anything is being done!
 
Originally posted by Shadow Leader@Jan 2 2008, 06:15 PM
I know what you're saying, it's not ideal, no, but it happens!!!

Strangely enough I was talking about riding out a finish earlier today during which we were observing that far too many people (usually girls, I have to say!) seem to think that "riding a finish" consists of pushing down on the horse's withers a few times[rather than pushing out towards the ears], during which it really doesn't look like anything is being done!
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....or flapping your elbows around while keeping your hands in the same position :D
 
You're not wrong there, Rory!!! Mind you, that tends to be the favourite action in the "look I'm pretending to ride this out but I've got someone taking £20k out of it for me on the machine so I'm not really pushing" stakes!

Besides which, my last line was incorrect - it should have read

"seem to think that "riding a finish" consists of pushing down on the horse's withers a few times[rather than pushing out towards the ears], during which it really doesn't look like anything is being done! Which it isn't." !!
 
Originally posted by rorydelargy@Jan 2 2008, 10:48 AM
Well said Chris.

Can I point out again to those who are under the impression that Swinbank didn't support the jockey to the stewards that this is not the case. If Alan Swinbank told the stewards that the jockey had disobeyed instructions then he would not have been fined and the case referred. The comments he made after the enquiry weren't the cleverest but were made in anger after the enquiry and are taken out of context to some degree.
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i was high lighting that its your opinion, yet when you posted your comments it came acroos as almost fact like. like you knew whatreally happened. none of us do, th eonly thing i was commenting on was the flac he gave the young lad.
 
Let me educate you:

Fact ~ if a trainer informs the stewards that his jockey has ridden contrary to instructions, then the trainer will NOT be fined but the case referred to Shaftesbury Avenue. Therefore we know that Alan Swinbank did not hang his conditional out to dry before the stewards. His comments afterwards were ill judged but clearly not a reflection of what he said in the enquiry.
 
My point about touches and gambling yards was exactly that you would NOT choose this horse, jockey, day and situation if you were trying to land a touch. If anyone thinks they were trying to land a touch, I'm mystified; it's obvious to anyone surely that the touch IF there were one would come in a subsequent race. But it'[s conditionals/apprentices riding in the kind of yard that lands a touch who oftne have the hard job of setting it up :P

As for any message to Swinbank being sent to spam by the secretary, I can assure you Chris that quite a few trainers [or their wives] do reads their own eMail! Some never do of course...
 
My point HS was today was not the day - the horse drifted on Betfair (apparently), had a 10lb claimer on, was 33/1 and running for the first time in 2 years. I think the trainer and owner expected him to be out with the washing so to speak.
 
Tom is one of my best friends son. I've known him since a baby and got a call after the race from his dad. The simple truth of the matter is Tom was knackered and couldn't feel his legs. He thought he was in danger of falling off, and when the horse hit the last, he thought the horse had emptied ( I believe been off the track for over two years ) and decided not to be any harder on it. Tom got a 21 day ban, and his dad told me he has told him over and over again he needs to work on his fitness.

Some of you may remember Tom was kicked in the head and was in a coma after his first ride over hurdels about two years ago. I think this was only his fourth or fifth ride, and he finished third on his last at 33/1 behind Mick Fitz.

Edited to add, the trainer may have said that to the stewards, but in respect of the fine, I believe the stable had a 7/4 winner of the last.........
 
Thanks for the update, Dave. Tom had said in the enquiry that he was tired hence the apparent lack of effort.

Let's hope he can put this incident behind him having learnt from it , get back in the saddle after the ban much fitter and ready to win a few races.
 
He really does need to spend time down the gym, jockeys who are that unfit are a danger to themselves and other horses/jockeys! esp over jumps
 
I wouldn't say its so much as him being unfit Headstrong;

I've known many lads riding out for months at home and then ride on track, you dont realise how say lack of race fitness you are.

I know when I started in points that first 5 or 6 I was bolloxed after a 3m point on something that needed a ride.

You can be down the gym every night, swimming, rowing, running but the only thing which prepares you for race riding is race riding.

You dont get stronger and better unless you are riding frequently. I remember having my first ride in a point. I was about 9st 10lb and fit as a flea. I was riding out 6 days a week, sometimes 7, played football on Saturdays and was also running after work every evening.

Yet when I got off the horse I thought I was gonna die, the bets thing for him would be to bash it out on an horse exerciser every evening, thats a good test but not many yards have them for their apprentices anymore.
 
Part of it is to do with the general shift in training methods I'm sure. Nowadays most trainers tend utilise interval training so that in riding out you canter up an average of 5f, up to 3 times usually, on one horse. That in itself doesn't tend to require a high level of fitness as most people of good riding fitness can manage for 5f or so! The interval training leads to other issues IMO, such as riding skills, but there's little point going into them here. Now, if you ride out at an old-fashioned yard with a circular gallop whereby you are riding over distances from 1m to 1m6f on a daily basis, those muscles soon develop, as does your fitness. Racecourse gallops also help [obviously I'm talking NH rather than flat] as they tend to be over these longer distances.

Chris is right in that gymwork can be of only limited benefit when you are race-riding as you use completely different muscles in race-riding; it isn't so much the wind-fitness that tends to kick in, it tends to be the legs that go first, or the upper arms/shoulders when riding a finish or on one that is taking a tug. There are very little exercise you can do to develop the specific muscles you need in the legs for riding in a race bar race-riding, riding on the gallops or using an equiciser. Try standing in a jockey's crouch and see how long you can do it for - most people would struggle to manage it for a minute!! Actually, thinking about it, I've got a very good book that I've had for over ten years which is produced with jockey's fitness in mind; it has several exercises you can do at home in it to help develop the muscles you need. I must try to dig it out, Christ knows where it is! Equally, going to the gym cannot hurt and it does sound like the lad wants to try to get to the gym a bit more at least! He won't be the first, nor the last, to fall into such a trap though.
 
Interesting stuff Dom and Chris. Had originally planned posting why would a trainer put up someone who wasn't fit to ride etc.

Thanks for the update Dave - good to see your friends lad back in racing and that he's recovered from the incident a couple of years ago.

Martin :)
 
Looks to me as if the lad will never make it as jockey. If he had the neccessary "killer instinct" and thought that the horse could win, any natural jockey would have gone for it, the win would have meant everything.
 
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