Is the proposed road tax a threat to racing?

I'd rather they added the tax to fuel. I'm not a fan of having my movements tracked by anybody or for any reason. :ph34r:

As for those who ask why we should make an effort when the likes of America does not, think not of what your planet can do for you but what you can do for your planet. If every person who is concerned for the future of the environment made an individual effort to reduce their carbon footprint, that would be a great start. And those who ask what difference does one persons effort make surely realise that if everyone who thought the same all made carbon reductions in their lifestyle, the impact would be massive. So just do it !
 
Originally posted by Shadow Leader@Jan 4 2007, 06:18 PM
Bar - I was brought up in the sticks, and as such spend a lot of time driving on deserted (and not-so-deserted!) country roads - it's going to happen if you want to leave the village from time to time!!!
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Crikey! reminds me of an ex fiancee of mine who was brought up in the stickiest of sticks. When encountering a roundabout one day, she got bored and announced that she'd had enough and "was going". "What" I screamed "We give way to the right in this country" I explained in an alarmed voice. She looked quizically at me, and said "Since when?". "It's the law" I said "The Highway Code?". Suffice to say she thought better of it, but admitted she didn't know this. Later on I discovered that her Mother, (who was sitting in the back) had also confessed privately to the then girlfriend, that she didn't know you had to give way to the right at a roundabout either, and had been happily driving around for 30 years oblivious to it.

Suffice to say, I'd like to add Devonians to the list of people made to take Shadz's test.

I should confess though Ms Leader, I tend to agree with you. Driving to the conditions of the road, and with in your safe limits is what its about. Northamptonshire police famously let a motorist off a speeding offence when clocked at 110 mph on the M1, as they said he was capable at driving at that speed safely. His name? Alain Prost

When I was sales repping I'd be doing 50,000 miles a year in all sorts of weather conditions and encountering different cities, and very often having to drive on sight with little familiarity etc. I became what I'd term a 'good, bad driver'. Technically, I was frequently illegal in many of my actions but could ultimately handle a car at speed through familiarity. Indeed, I'd have had no problem re-taking a test and pretending to drive responsibly for half and hour every now and then. I'd be surprised if I could drive to the same level now though, older that I am, and doing nothing like the same mileage under such testing conditions.
 
Just got to weigh in here, I am a scientist and an engineer and read wide ranging reseach papers etc regularly. I am far from convinced that human effects are the main cause of global warming but I can go into that in another forum.

Restricting car use by tracking is another issue, and it crosses my mind that some hi-tech company with the products planned to do this very thing has got the ear of the Leaders of the two main political parties - both of which appear to be in financial dire straights.

Of course it is a very simple thing to hit the motorist.

But what annoys me most is that I am a cricket coach and freely transport junior crickers to matches, training and events to the tune of a few thousand miles per year. This tax will hit me and others quite hard, perhaps to the point where we can no longer afford to offer this service (Junior coaches of other sports will have the same concerns). So this government (of which I am a keen supporter of its many objectives) seems not to have considered wider issues than taxing the 'school run'.

Thats it, back to a proper issue - this weekends racing.
 
Originally posted by betsmate@Jan 4 2007, 02:12 PM
Lets face it, this government does not have a particularly good track record when it comes to stealth-taxing.
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I agree, but with a proviso - all bloody governments ae the same! The expression just happened to have been coined during the last ten years. Interestingly, the newspaper where I believe the words first appeared is the one which is talking as if the proposals that are being floated are already finalised in legislation.
 
How, if they had taken a test, did they not know that you give way to the right at a roundabout? Seriously, they would have surely encountered a roundabout on the test route? I encountered two on mine and that was over 25 years ago, and tests are meant to be harder now! Another argument for having to take a test more than once. :angy:
 
Speed, per se, doesn't kill a thing. Stupidity kills. And that can be at any speed - enough little ones have been killed by people reversing over them or knocking them off their bikes.
 
Originally posted by SteveM@Jan 4 2007, 04:02 PM
The Environment Agency's Nick Rijke warned that shifting money away from fuel duty would take away the incentive for people to use green vehicles.
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I can't think why, as all three main parties - whose proposals will all be condemned by Jeremy Clarkson and Co - have said that whatever scheme they use there will be major concessions to environmentally friendly vehicles.

A perfect example is as I posted earlier - which not everyone seems to have taken in - my son pays about a third of what I do in road fund licence, a third of the norm for his residents' parking and nothing at all for the London congestion charge. All because he now drives a Prius.
 
Originally posted by krizon@Jan 4 2007, 06:45 PM
Speed, per se, doesn't kill a thing. Stupidity kills. And that can be at any speed - enough little ones have been killed by people reversing over them or knocking them off their bikes.
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Exactly. What makes me a safe driver is the fact that i rode motorbikes for a couple of years before i passed my test. That feeling of vulnerability and always looking ahead, of always anticipating and being wary of other drivers movements never leaves you.
 
Originally posted by Etta Place@Jan 4 2007, 06:43 PM
How, if they had taken a test, did they not know that you give way to the right at a roundabout? Seriously, they would have surely encountered a roundabout on the test route? I encountered two on mine and that was over 25 years ago, and tests are meant to be harder now! Another argument for having to take a test more than once. :angy:
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I've no idea, and can't explain it, but kid you not :blink:

The only possible explanation (we are talking about backwoods people here) is that they probably knew once, but had forgotten, given that their little routes would have taken them no where near roundabouts, and the few times they did encounter them, they must have been free of traffic. I'm personally of the opinion that they'd been pulling out in front of cars for years, quite probably earning themselves a rebuke for doing so, but been pretty well oblivious to the offence they'd committed
 
Would those who say that speed is not a contributory factor to road traffic accidents please not say that the following statistics have been invented by those with an axe to grind (a response that has been used more than once before on here!)

For the time period 2000 to 2004, excessive speed was a contributory factor in about:

13 per cent of all injury collisions;
19 per cent of serious injury collisions;
29 per cent of fatal collisions.

[Excludes results from West Midlands]

Department of Transport

Speed reductions cut casualties. The likelihood of crashes decreases as speeds are reduced. Although the relationship varies according to road conditions and average speeds, there is an association between speed reduction and crash reduction - every 1 mph reduction in speed reduction in crashes is accompanied by an average 5% decrease in crashes and a 7% decrease in fatalities.

A 10% drop in speeds resulted in a 40% drop in fatalities and serious injuries after speed cameras were introduced in West London.

Parliamentary Advisory Council on Transport Safety (1996) Taking Action on Speeding

Where 20 mph zones have been introduced and enforced, all casualties have fallen by around 60%.

The wrong speed choice kills three times as many people as drink driving. And yet speeding is considered by most drivers to be the moral equivalent of parking on a double yellow line. 85% of drivers admit to breaking the law by exceeding the speed limit.

AA Foundation for Road Safety Research (1999) What Limits Speed?

What are your chances?

Your average chances of surviving a collision if you are struck by a car while walking or cycling:

Vehicle Speed - 20 mph
% Chances of Surviving - 95

Vehicle Speed - 30 mph
% Chances of Surviving - 45

Vehicle Speed - 40 mph
% Chances of Surviving - 5

Parliamentary Advisory Council on Transport Safety (1999) Road traffic law and enforcement: a driving force for casualty reduction

There's plenty more where that came from but I'm sure that whatever data is put up on here we'll have a number defending the indefensible.
 
Those stats are all well and fine, but the responsible driver surely knows when and where it is safe to "go a bit over"

I would never speed in a residential area or on poorly maintained roads.
 
I didn't say "speed is not a contributory factor to road traffic accidents", I said it isn't speed that kills, it's bad/careless/reckless driving. It is perfectly possible to drive fast & not die, or get involved in an accident!
 
Well of course we could ban cars alltogether, that way nobody will ever get hit by one will they?

I don't think anyone is saying that speeding isn't a factor in many road accidents, all we would like to see are realistic speed limits.
Our speed limits were set when cars took at least twice as long to stop as what a modern car can do nowadays, and yet they are getting reduced further every year.
I think I'll make my next vehicle a milk float, at least that is until the government decides that even that is too fast.
 
If they're going to introduce trackers, maybe they could bring in speed limiters that force cars to remain below the speed limit in their current location.
 
Originally posted by BrianH@Jan 4 2007, 07:19 PM
So we allow all those over a certain IQ to speed but stamp down hard on the under-class?
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Sounds good to me. They can get the bus in any case.
 
Saving the environment my backside h:) surely it's just yet another stealth tax that perhaps the more wealthy of us can afford to pay, but what about those people that cannot afford to pay. As many of you may already know, the congestion charge rises to £10 soon, and the area this covers is to be expanded. Where does this money go? I assume we are meant to believe it's to improve roads?

It's all well and good for people that can afford it BUT what about the less wealthy. This government is an absolute and utter farce. Tax, tax and more bloody tax whichever way they want to dress this up.

I was caught speeding at 74mph in a 70mph about a year ago, and as I rely very much on my car I have been extremely careful about my speed ever since. I think I am a very safe driver but it's not me I am worried about, it's the others. I took my advanced driving test about 15 years ago, and passed first time, but I am never (I hope) complacent. There are far too many people on the UK's roads with no licence, no tax and driving in cars unsafe to be on any road. Late at night when people "think" they are "safer" whether they are on country lanes or on a motorway, they are possibly more likely to encounter one of these cars, probably driven by someone high on drugs or drunk - or possibly someone with absolutely no right to be on our roads - the car may well be stolen. Also night time driving is a favourite time for the many foreigners to be driving their artics, when they are possibly tired and drive even more erratically than during the day. Speed in any vehicle definitely kills.

Many of you will have heard about that coach tipping over on the slip road from the M4 onto the M25 last night, killing 2 people and injuring many. The driver is possibly going to be prosecuted for dangerous driving. I am only guessing that speed could have well been a factor in this incident.

I am also guessing that many "trackers" have already been fitted in a few cars, and are just waiting to be "activated". :ph34r: B) I would put nothing past this government.

I remember reading somewhere (probably NOT the Daily Mail) some cars speedo's do not actually give the correct speed reading so when you think you are doing 80mph you may well be doing only 75mph.
 
It couldn`t have been the Mail Cathy, they`d be more concerned with whole communites of Asians having the one license between them.
 
The biggest problem I have with this whole project are the increased taxes that we will have to pay to fill the blackhole left in the country's coffers made by which ever Government Agency is tasked with delivering a workable technological solution.

My prediction would be for the project to get the go-ahead and then fail to be delivered more than 5 years after scheduled, £10 billion over-budget and for Accenture/PWC/KPMG/ANother* (*delete as appropriate) to announce record profits following the Government's decision to shelf the project that said consultative partner was delivering as a loss-leader.

But then I am a cynic.
 
Originally posted by Gareth Flynn@Jan 4 2007, 07:26 PM
If they're going to introduce trackers, maybe they could bring in speed limiters that force cars to remain below the speed limit in their current location.
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Would carry its own dangers too Gareth
 
Also springing up are these large computer type "poles" by the sides of the motorways near the speed camera that can evidently process the car number plates of those speeding and send the information back for processing and tickets etc issued in double quick time. The government clearly needs the money from these speed offenders as soon as possible.

Obviously, there are speed limiters on articulated vehicles, so I am sure the government will soon find a way of linking your speed in your car to your credit card so that every time you go 1mph over any speed limit it takes an amount of money direct from your bank account and straight into their pockets.

Me a cynic? Nah......
 
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