walsworth
Journeyman
So you say, does anyone else? IF Iran has nuclear capability, which I doubt, they would have more sense than to try and deliver it through Gaza.
Israel/Palestine
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Grasshopper
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I find all of this faintly ridiculous, I have to say.
Clivex, it's disappointing that you appear to be justifying Israel's actions here (and elsewhere), by pointing out that there are worse governments in the world. The "faintly ridiculous" theme continues when you avoid directly answering question, then go on to accuse others of the same.
This was an indefensible act, and no amount of "there could have been weapons on board", or "it was self defense" flannel will make it otherwise.
Those suggesting that it was somehow justified - on any level - is clearly incapable of viewing this event objectively, and should effectively be ignored for the purposes of this particular debate.
There would be no Palestinians resistance to Israel (as Israel) if Israel hadn't continually flouted UN conventions in its Zionist (note, not Jewish, not Israeli) land-grabbing. Read up about Zion - it was to form a Zionist state that the Balfour Treaty was first drawn up in something like 1904, and not enacted until 1948 ("the creation of the state of Israel") in part due to revulsion because of what happened to Jews during WWII, but also because no country sincerely wanted to take in Jewish refugees fleeing persecution. Even the USA, to its huge shame, turned away a shipload of them and sent them back to be murdered or accepted in any other country.
Where is the correlation between Iran's highly dubious nuclear ability (why do I hear 'WMD" echoing in the background of Western paranoia?) and Israel blockading the families of Gaza - a place it's managed to half raze to the ground, in any case? Hamas/Hezbollah/the PLO/the PLF... why should there be so many factions intent on battling Israel? Because Israel isn't this gutsy little state, in a 'resource poor' country - the Palestinians were doing very well there prior to the huge influx of non-Palestinian Jews, by the way - it is supposed to be a Zionist homeland, and that's the big difference. Just look at the Zionist agenda and how it's played out so far.
As for boarding unarmed ships of mercy by force, in international waters - nothing will happen. As is happening now, there'll be the usual bluster, frowning and pursed lips from the diplomatic community. Nobody will be charged with the murder of non-coms, nobody will face a charge of piracy, abduction, false imprisonment, GBH, ABH, the denial of human rights, whatever. Israel can do what it wants, whenever, with the West's covert and hypocritical blessing.
Where is the correlation between Iran's highly dubious nuclear ability (why do I hear 'WMD" echoing in the background of Western paranoia?) and Israel blockading the families of Gaza - a place it's managed to half raze to the ground, in any case? Hamas/Hezbollah/the PLO/the PLF... why should there be so many factions intent on battling Israel? Because Israel isn't this gutsy little state, in a 'resource poor' country - the Palestinians were doing very well there prior to the huge influx of non-Palestinian Jews, by the way - it is supposed to be a Zionist homeland, and that's the big difference. Just look at the Zionist agenda and how it's played out so far.
As for boarding unarmed ships of mercy by force, in international waters - nothing will happen. As is happening now, there'll be the usual bluster, frowning and pursed lips from the diplomatic community. Nobody will be charged with the murder of non-coms, nobody will face a charge of piracy, abduction, false imprisonment, GBH, ABH, the denial of human rights, whatever. Israel can do what it wants, whenever, with the West's covert and hypocritical blessing.
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Oh listen to the arrogance...
I didnt justify it. I said it was a blunder at best. But it CAN be justified under international law. Perhaps some would like to look at bit closer at the detail before jumping on the anti jewish state bandwagon
The point that the usual suspects get completely wound up by aggression from Israel but remain completely silent on other international incidents remains. and of course, the reasons for that are clear
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Grasshopper
Senior Jockey
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Clivex, if I break into your house weilding a gun, you would be perfectly within your rights to defend yourself. If I then used my gun to shoot you whilst you defended yourself, I would - quite rightly - be sent down for murder. As far as I am aware, there is zero precedent under international law that excuses or justifies the murders committed on that boat. If there is, please expand on the theme, instead of trotting it out parrot-fashion.
The only usual suspect on display here is you....defending the indefensible, and sporting your usual pro-Israeli blinkers, regardless of whether a crime has been committed or not. I am neither wound-up nir wound-down about this latest, dire chapter in Israel's history. I'm wound-up about your constant refusal to criticise Israel, even when it is clear that this is a straightforward case of murder, regardless of which 'side' of the debate one might come from. Your failure to condemn this outright, does you no credit whatsoever.
I wonder if anyone can answer a question that is bugging me regarding Israel?
At some point last year I recall hearing an Israeli big-wig saying that the West makes a serious mistake in its tendency to view Israel as a European country situated in the Middle East, when it is entriely a Middle Eastern country.
Who said, it? I really can't remember as I was becoming quite ill at the time. I remember the statement, but not who made it.
At some point last year I recall hearing an Israeli big-wig saying that the West makes a serious mistake in its tendency to view Israel as a European country situated in the Middle East, when it is entriely a Middle Eastern country.
Who said, it? I really can't remember as I was becoming quite ill at the time. I remember the statement, but not who made it.
I would prefer to leave religion out of arguments like this, but when you see the likes of Cameron coming out with lines such as 'I count myself as a friend of Israel' you have to wonder why? Why is he a friend of Israel? And what he has said on this is not as pathetic as other nations (can you imagine there is talk now the Israelis will conduct the inquiry? :lol
.
Why is everyone so keen to be seen as a 'friend of Israel'?
The indisputable crimes committed by that country in recent years should see it blown out of the water by NATO etc.
But instead, people want to be seen as its friend. Why?
.Why is everyone so keen to be seen as a 'friend of Israel'?
The indisputable crimes committed by that country in recent years should see it blown out of the water by NATO etc.
But instead, people want to be seen as its friend. Why?
The absolute minimum that should come out of this is the extradition of the Israeli commandoes to face trial for murder - will that happen, what with the Israeli history of never giving up one of their own?
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Information, Hamm?
It is an open secret at a certain establishment nearby that Israel provides most. Everyone knows, but no one speaks of it.
No idea why they are so hush-hush about it if such a politically ignorant person such as I can work it out.
There may be something else to do with some kind of research though. I will try to remember what I read last summer about it (before the brain went deadish with medication).
It is an open secret at a certain establishment nearby that Israel provides most. Everyone knows, but no one speaks of it.
No idea why they are so hush-hush about it if such a politically ignorant person such as I can work it out.
There may be something else to do with some kind of research though. I will try to remember what I read last summer about it (before the brain went deadish with medication).
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The Turks have been given the bodies of their dead to bury, and along with them probably goes any shred of goodwill left in that country for Israel, and ahead of us all lies another fine prospect for revenge and retribution. It isn't just that Israel's commandoes stormed aid ships and shot people, it's that all of the governments of those concerned are prepared to water down their condemnations, let alone take any form of direct or indirect action, against Israel. Thus, in those deathless words about it only taking good men to do nothing to allow ill to prevail, we have again proved ourselves spineless and weak-kneed in the face of continuing Israeli aggression. I'd be amazed that this event hasn't turned a few moderate Turks into outright fanatics. Super, terrific, well done, our 'good friend' Israel. You've done your muckers proud.
walsworth
Journeyman
Obama will sort it out because he is a "good egg" is he not?
I am taking the piss there slightly, but would recommend that some of our younger readers take a look at "1066 And All That"
I am taking the piss there slightly, but would recommend that some of our younger readers take a look at "1066 And All That"
Sheikh
At the Start
Why don't you give us a brief synopsis of 1066 . It would be interesting to hear from someone who was actually there
walsworth
Journeyman
Am I among Philistines, or has nobody ever read the book by messrs Sellar & Yeatman?
Any old fashion I think it's time that I retired and was put out to grass.
Any old fashion I think it's time that I retired and was put out to grass.
Up your life cover for Mrs Walsy, and I'll have a word with the vet. I think I read it, but I'd have been very, very young at the time...
What you might enjoy are the 'Horrible History' series, Walsy - very amusing potted histories from the Romans through the Tudors (or Chewders, if you prefer), to the 'Vile Victorians'. I also bought a paperback called 'History - With All the Boring Bits Taken Out'. Very interesting and amusing bits and bobs throughout the ages - some well known, some not. I'd no idea that one of the Turkish sultans decided to have his harem drowned - over 300 of the beauties - for casting aspersions on his fat favourite. Now that would've brightened up history lessons.
What you might enjoy are the 'Horrible History' series, Walsy - very amusing potted histories from the Romans through the Tudors (or Chewders, if you prefer), to the 'Vile Victorians'. I also bought a paperback called 'History - With All the Boring Bits Taken Out'. Very interesting and amusing bits and bobs throughout the ages - some well known, some not. I'd no idea that one of the Turkish sultans decided to have his harem drowned - over 300 of the beauties - for casting aspersions on his fat favourite. Now that would've brightened up history lessons.
Regardless of not being at the battle in 1066, we were stiched up by the French, so little has changed in 1000 years, Isrial are friends we don't need the way they carry on makes it just a matter of time, last night they staged a football match to raze money for children, children live in Garza as well, and if it was us would we not fight to get our country and our lands back,
walsworth
Journeyman
Too late round here the Saracens have already taken control, not to mention the Neanderthals in Westminster!
walsworth
Journeyman
Wait until you see the results of a Government that will do absolutely nothing but just hope for the best, a bit like breeding racehorses, strangely enough.
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