It Could Only Happen In Ireland
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Ardross
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In his school I doubt very much that such haircuts would be banned.
Are you suggesting Maurice and PDJ for that matter that a child should be stopped from doing their exams due to an illicit haircut rather than the application of a lesser sanction?
Are you suggesting Maurice and PDJ for that matter that a child should be stopped from doing their exams due to an illicit haircut rather than the application of a lesser sanction?
Ardross, the point is not the haircut. The point is the flouting of school rules. Let this go and next pupils will be turning up without their uniform. Should we let this slide? It's not that important is it? From there what is next? I disagree with you. Schools have standards and they should be maintained.
Am I misreading the situation? I thought the pupil wasn't banned from sitting his exams?
If I were the head teacher, I would have no qualms about segregating the boy for his exams and if he or his parents objected I'd have no qualms in asking them to enrol him elsewhere for them.
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Ardross
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Surely the haircut is the point - the question is what sanction is imposed for the breach in question . In this case the proposed sanction appears to be way over the top - why can't they be given detentions etc instead .
The head was absolutely right. Schools are places of learning, not just academically but socially. There are rules that we all have to obey in life and school is an important part of this process as it is probably the first place children encounter a set of rules and sanctions should always follow the breaking of these rules.
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Ardross
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What if the rule is a stupid rule with no moral basis or justification ?
Desert Orchid
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In that case it's like the offside rule <_<
It's a rule which was imposed for a reason which goes beyond its apparent basic stupidity, although I disagree that it is stupid. As for moral justification, I reckon it is entirely morally justified. A school is (or should be) a community with shared values and principles. The head teacher has a duty to uphold those values.
Do those of you disagree with the decision belong to a golf club?
I know of golf clubs where certain attire is banned. I know of clubs where, on formal occasions, the club blazer (complete with club tie and badge) must be worn. I know of members of such clubs who willingly comply with such rules yet object to their kids having to wear a uniform to school.
Well then put him in detention in September. Find a punishment to fit the crime.
I don't agree with the theory that the rules are the rules and that's that because sometimes the rules are wrong. And, in this case, the rules are open to interpretation.
Do the school have a prescribed rule on haircuts? Do students have to have it longer than a particular length that they are all made aware of? Or is it just a matter of opinion on behalf of an over zealous school principal?
Having seen the haircut, it's nothing remarkable. The only thing is, because the boy in question has fair hair it is always likely to look a lot shorter than it is. I know this from personal experience.
I am astonished at the level of support for the principal's actions on this forum.
Interestingly, the pupil in question had a bereavement last year when his father died. At the time, the principal popped around and promised the mother he would provide the son with the best education possible. Good to see that he is doing the best by him and handling everything sensitively.
I don't agree with the theory that the rules are the rules and that's that because sometimes the rules are wrong. And, in this case, the rules are open to interpretation.
Do the school have a prescribed rule on haircuts? Do students have to have it longer than a particular length that they are all made aware of? Or is it just a matter of opinion on behalf of an over zealous school principal?
Having seen the haircut, it's nothing remarkable. The only thing is, because the boy in question has fair hair it is always likely to look a lot shorter than it is. I know this from personal experience.
I am astonished at the level of support for the principal's actions on this forum.
Interestingly, the pupil in question had a bereavement last year when his father died. At the time, the principal popped around and promised the mother he would provide the son with the best education possible. Good to see that he is doing the best by him and handling everything sensitively.
A very questionable analogy, Maurice - after all, one has a choice about belonging (or not) to a golf club whereas most parents have little choice when it comes to their children attending a particular school and the child usually none.
I haven't seen the haircut in question and I do agree with there being a sensible set of rules with regard to uniform and appearance in schools but this has to be flexible and adjusted acording to the times we live in - as mentioned above, I can remember too when long hair was the bane of teacher's lives!
How many times was the boy asked to modify his hair? OK, so it's an excessively short cut - unfortunately, only time can remedy that but surely a sensible discussion with pupil and parents present, an agreement not to repeat the cut in return for the lad sitting his exams and this being made public with a strong warning for other kids not to follow suit would have been a better course of action?
What point there is in excluding any child just before exams thereby adding to the junk pile of under achieving, ill-educated children that already exist is puzzling in the extreme.
Incidentally, excluding kids just before exams is not the preserve of State schools either here or in Ireland - I know of several cases in Public Schools as well - all usually with the same result of disaffected kids who then cause trouble for all of us.
Desert Orchid
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I mentioned this debate in passing to Mrs Orchid this evening. (She's depute in a very large school.) She knew all about it as she listens to RTE a lot. She said that based on what she's heard of the case the head teacher has acted entirely appropriately.
How can the term appropriate be mentioned in a case where a student is stopped doing his exam due to a hair cut. It is irrelevent how important or not this exam is.....what if it was the Leaving Cert...presumably the same would happen??!? What a joke.
Like I said what if for cultural/religious reasons he got his hair cut short... what happens then? Considering the poor lad lost his Dad last year it makes this case stink even more.
Like I said what if for cultural/religious reasons he got his hair cut short... what happens then? Considering the poor lad lost his Dad last year it makes this case stink even more.
I'm also entirely sure that if the student in question was a straight A grader then he wouldn't have been stopped. Such pupils are good for league tables and whatnot.
Desert, if yer gonna bring family members who are teachers into it, as mentioned above my dad was a school principal for years and is actually quite conservative in his views but even still his comment on the principal in question was...
"Gobshite, an absolute gobshite. He dug a hole for himself and he keeps digging. You take students like that to one side, you have a quiet word with them and you don't go disturbing everyone else and bringing trouble on yourself because of it."
Desert, if yer gonna bring family members who are teachers into it, as mentioned above my dad was a school principal for years and is actually quite conservative in his views but even still his comment on the principal in question was...
"Gobshite, an absolute gobshite. He dug a hole for himself and he keeps digging. You take students like that to one side, you have a quiet word with them and you don't go disturbing everyone else and bringing trouble on yourself because of it."
my take on it, is that the "poor lad" had probably been giving the teacher grief all year - possibly three years - and having been suspended earlier for shaving his head - (stupid rule I am aware) he tried to face down the teacher by turning up with a shaved head again. Thinking that he wouldnt get turned away because it was his exams. Trying to score a point over the principal and putting his first exam up as the ante, thinking that the principal would chicken out because of the high stakes, and the media backlash that would ensue.
The principal saw his bluff and won the hand. He could have taken the exam elsewhere but chose not to. That he didnt take any of his exams subsequently showed up his colors, raising the stakes once again in an effort to spite the principal. He will lose once again.
Jesus I cant stand teachers, including all those that frequent this site
but I would have done the same if I was the principal.
The principal saw his bluff and won the hand. He could have taken the exam elsewhere but chose not to. That he didnt take any of his exams subsequently showed up his colors, raising the stakes once again in an effort to spite the principal. He will lose once again.
Jesus I cant stand teachers, including all those that frequent this site
but I would have done the same if I was the principal.yes Galleo, he was banned for the haircut during the standard year but thought that because it was exam time that the rules didnt apply. He lost. It would have been an absolute abuse of power if he was stopped from doing his exams for some rule the student wasnt aware of. He was aware of the rules, and had been punished for flouting that rule previoulsy, and it is my guess that he thought becuase it was the exams that he would get one over the principal. He gambled and lost. Sad to say that his reaction to losing has only reinforced my prejudice against the student.
My guess is that a model student would have waiting until after the exams before shaving his head, but had he done so, you would have hoped that he would have received a verbal warning - something that was hopefully done to the 'victim' here before he was first suspended.
The golf club analogy doesn't work because membership of such institutions, repulsive though most of them are, is voluntary as far as I know. Attendance at school, while also being repulsive, is compulsory. I at least never had any choice in the matter.
One of my teachers never tired of saying "School is a preparation for life. Life is unfair, therefore school is unfair". In other words, us snotty little buggers had to learn we couldn't always expect to get our own way. That said, I think Bobbyjo's dad has it right, even schools sometimes choose to demonstrate these things outside the limelight.
One of my teachers never tired of saying "School is a preparation for life. Life is unfair, therefore school is unfair". In other words, us snotty little buggers had to learn we couldn't always expect to get our own way. That said, I think Bobbyjo's dad has it right, even schools sometimes choose to demonstrate these things outside the limelight.