Jamie Oliver's Healthy Food For Schools....

[Kathy]

Well, poor area or not, Merlin, I bet many of these poor families have enough money for beer, fags and fast foods - and god knows what else. How did the poor people during the war still manage to have a relatively healthy diet on a small wage (or food coupons) and very restricted ingredients? I can only assume they used their imagination. There were obviously no fast food outlets in those days.

I think a lot of the "fat" problem is down to sheer laziness in many cases and a complete lack of imagination and knowledge of nutrition. I also think that eating all the rubbish makes people (parents and children) lethargic and so they have even less energy to even think about, let alone even trying to make some difference to their appalling diets & get exercise. So much easier to eat crap and do nothing.

Fast food is easy and quick and until people are educated into the dangers of the crap they are putting into their bodies this problem is not going to go away.

A small glass of orange juice a day goes towards your 5 pieces of fruit or veg a day, as do baked beans... add an apple and a baked spud, and there is only one more to find.

I certainly don't know the answer but I applaud anyone who is actively trying to educate kids anywhere in the country, whatever their income, into a better way to eat, exercise and to ultimately stay healthy and live longer.

I think the answer is a lot more soup, baked spuds and an allotment so they can grow all their own veg! B)

 

[Bar the Bull]

Fat tax should be introduced.

Not on fatty foods, but on fatty children.

That'll learn them.

 

[Colin Phillips]

Kathy, there were problems with diet during and post-war, I remember being given supplements when I was in primary/junior school.

 

[Kathy]

So many fatty children have fatty parents, too.

I have to admit to going into Burgerking occasionally. I love their coffee and I can sometime be tempted with one of the chicken type bap things. I sit in their gobsmacked as the parents bring in their kids and their bloody babies to have their meals. Children under the age of 4 years old, should be banned from these places unless they are only in for a drink or a healthy option meal or have a letter to say it is their first visit that week.

I laughed last week as their was a man with a mobile unit testing people's blood pressure and BMI about 20 foot from BurgerKing's front door. I had a chat with him and asked why he hadn't moved closer, and he said he didn't think many people would find it very funny.

I hate sounding all self-righteous, as I am absolutely no saint where food is concerned BUT I do think we owe it to our kids and other parents to educate them of the dangers of what they are doing with poor diets - and teach them about exercise. Even if fast food is addictive, at least by doing exercise the body stands some chance of using up some of the calories.

If we think the NHS is overloaded now, wait till these little porkers reach their twenties and thirties. There will no doubt be an epidemic of people with heart problems, diabetes, poor circulation and asthma. The NHS just won't be able to cope - a bit like now really, but alot worse. :angy:

 

[Bar the Bull]

So many fatty children have fatty parents, too

Tax them.

I have to admit to going into Burgerking occasionally.

Tax her!

 

[PDJ]

Originally posted by Merlin the Magician@Oct 4 2006, 04:04 PM
I travelled on foot 2 miles there and 2 miles back 4 times a day......=8 miles a day

Maybe you should have been in Maths lessons instead of all that walking, Merlin...

 

[Kathy]

Originally posted by Colin Phillips@Oct 4 2006, 04:33 PM
Kathy, there were problems with diet during and post-war, I remember being given supplements when I was in primary/junior school.

Thanks, Colin. It was abit before my time. B)

I remember my Mum and Nan telling me how they did try and make interesting meals from the limited ingredients they had available. My point, I probably made badly, was that people during the wars maybe didn't eat healthy food but they did spend time making meals from what was available. Nowadays, we are only restricted by our imagination and even on a tight budget, food can sometimes be interesting and nutricious.

Just off for a piece of dry bread (nicked off next doors bird table) and lard for me tea..... <_<

 

[Desert Orchid]

I think it is fair to argue that people are preparing junk food at home but it's equally valid to ask why it's the case.

I also think it's fair to argue that fast food has become necessary in 21st Century society. People are required to work all sorts of antisocial rotas and shifts and as the consumer society has developed, so too has the need to have things pretty much on demand. That goes for food too.

I'm out working for 12 hours a day five days a week. I'm shattered mentally and physically at the weekend. When I get home at night I have to start thinking about food and what to make for dinner for four people. I'm not going to spend all day Sunday cooking and freezing stuff because I'm not well enough organised for that. I need to be well-organised at work and maybe that's why I need a wee bit of chaos at home to maintain a perverse balance.

I do baulk at the chips option although Mrs Orchid (and her mum who lives with us) seems more than happy to stick on oven chips. I'd much rather peel and boil a few spuds. (At times I feel like boiling Mrs O when I see her sticking McCains in the oven but in fairness her job is much more demanding.)

I try to buy stuff that can be cooked quickly (less than 30 mins where possible) but can still be healthy and frozen veg can be microwaved in jig time. But I'm over 50, am very good in the kitchen (and not bad at cooking too :lol: ) and have a fair old intellect. How many younger parents who go out to work are in that kind of position?

It's all very well saying this and that is available but what if they don't have a car to get to the places where the cheaper foods are sold? You don't get big supermarkets or Lidl within walking distance of housing developments. They're mainly in retail parks away from the centre. I know families where they have to get a bus to the shops and a taxi back to carry the messages. It probably works out cheaper than owning and running a car. Others have to shop locally, which will always be more expensive.

People need to be educated into opting for healthier cooking and eating. McDonalds recently introduced a salad option yet the Consumer Association proved their salads were more fatty than their burgers.

Because of circumstances, I reckon it costs me £3-£5 to put together the main evening meal for all four of us in our house. During the hols, I can do it for less than £2 because I can think a bit more and prepare a bit better. People need to know it can be done and how to do it but how many would be willing to learn? Would they rather get the junk stuff down their (and their kids') throats fast and get out to the pub or bingo or watch satellite TV?

 

[Griffin]

Having to feed what seems like the five thousand every night I can guarantee that it is far cheaper to feed them healthy meals made from scratch with fresh produce than it is a selection of junk food. So the argument that poorer families cannot afford to feed proper meals is utter rubbish. With Georgia being the most demanding baby on earth I haven't got the time to cook complicated meals but we still eat well.

My children have been taught the importance of healthy eating almost from day one at school. Over the last eighteen months it seems to have really been drummed into them, so I presume the children moaning about the lack of chips and pies did not benefit from this new way of teaching. All junk food is banned in their schools, meals are from a new 'healthy eating' menu and fruit is given away to the children. I think it's marvellous.

I suspect a fair number of them simply can't be @rsed to provide the kids with a proper meal at home and could do with parenting skills courses but that's for another thread.

I totally agree with that. I was speechless when I heard one of the mums in Emilys class informing the teacher her son would be going home for lunch as he wouldn't eat a packed lunch or school dinner. The reason being is that every day for lunch he insisted on sausages, beans and chips, and every night he went to Macdonalds for his tea. Why on earth was she being dictated to by a five year year old? As his mother it's her duty to look after him and in my opinion she was failing miserably.

 

[PDJ]

My mother is a school dinner lady and her school are only allowed to serve chips once a week and the children now prefer the healthy options.

 

[Merlin the Magician]

I was speechless when I heard one of the mums in Emilys class informing the teacher her son would be going home for lunch as he wouldn't eat a packed lunch or school dinner. The reason being is that every day for lunch he insisted on sausages, beans and chips, and every night he went to Macdonalds for his tea. Why on earth was she being dictated to by a five year year old? As his mother it's her duty to look after him and in my opinion she was failing miserably.

GRIFFIN do you think that this is more the norm than a one off???????????? and the kids I am talking about are a lot older not primary school children, I do think in time if its not abolished these children can obviously be taught to eat this healthier food way.

Its a problem to try and change/teach older kids new habits and I do believe it will fail in the comprehensive schools because of the on cost, anfd fewer people staying in for school meals (and by my observation as already stated with the influx of pupils passing my house to go to the chippie in their lunch break) we are all very aware that schools are run on a shoe string, so something will have to go when the sums are done............

 

[BrianH]

I don't really think that we can abolish children

 

[Triptych]

Originally posted by Merlin the Magician@Oct 4 2006, 06:44 PM
Its a problem to try and change/teach older kids new habits and I do believe it will fail in the comprehensive schools because of the on cost, anfd fewer people staying in for school meals (and by my observation as already stated with the influx of pupils passing my house to go to the chippie in their lunch break) we are all very aware that schools are run on a shoe string, so something will have to go when the sums are done............

But why should it fail because of cost? It's far cheaper to produce meals using fresh vegetables and other ingredients rather than using mass produced processed food. Any schools using cost as an excuse for not providing healthy food are merely trying to cover up their own inadequacies, lack of imagination and lack of motivation.

 

[Melendez]

In fairness, when you cook a healthy meal yourself, you could do it as cheaply, as your time is costless. It is undoubtedly more expensive for a school to prepare a fresh meal as they have to pay the staff for their time, and probably acquire extra facilities.

 

[Griffin]

Originally posted by Merlin the Magician@Oct 4 2006, 06:44 PM
GRIFFIN do you think that this is more the norm than a one off???????????? and the kids I am talking about are a lot older not primary school children, I do think in time if its not abolished these children can obviously be taught to eat this healthier food way.

I don't believe it is a one off. There are many many children who bully their weak willed parents into feeding them crap, day in day out. Likewise there are those parents who will buy their kids a Macdonalds for dinner every night just because they can't be bothered to cook. People like that don't deserve to have children.

Daisy would like fish fingers, mashed potatoes and spaghetti for dinner every night, Molly would like chicken curry and Emily would like pizza but I am the one in charge and I decide what they eat, not them.

There is a whole generation of children for whom lessons on healthy eating seems to have been missed. And if the parents are now too feckless to teach their children and parent them correctly then it has to be done in schools right from the day they start.

 

[Merlin the Magician]

Originally posted by BrianH@Oct 4 2006, 06:52 PM
I don't really think that we can abolish children

I fecking do on some days ........................... :lol:

 

[Desert Orchid]

And some schools don't have any cooking facilities. The meals are produced centrally and delivered by van. Mind you, all my school meals were done that way and I was never fed junk food. I suspect it was more heavily subsidised in those days.

My mother was a dinner lady too. To start with, we occasionally got a few leftover servings of pudding or whatever at night but the local authority put a stop to it and ruled that any leftovers had to be binned. I reckoned that was a dreadful waste given that there were old folk centres in the neighbourhood but in a school serving something like 500 meals, was it really necessary to take that kind of view on a wastage ratio of less than 2%? It really angered my mother. There were women working in the hall with six or seven kids at home who would have been thankful for a wee bit extra at night. My mother said the reason behind the decision was that they'd heard the jannie was getting his entire evening meal taken home to him.

Why couldn't they just have told him to cut it out?

As for school meals nowadays, it is ridiculous that it can cost more for a school meal than going down the road to buy something better. A two course meal at school - kids' sized portions - would set me back over £3. I can buy a good portion of microwavable lasagne and a pot of dessert at the local Co-op for less than £2.

 

[Merlin the Magician]

Originally posted by Melendez@Oct 4 2006, 06:59 PM
In fairness, when you cook a healthy meal yourself, you could do it as cheaply, as your time is costless. It is undoubtedly more expensive for a school to prepare a fresh meal as they have to pay the staff for their time, and probably acquire extra facilities.

That's the point I am trying to highlight the schools have a very tight budget to work to, and they can ill afford to throw good money after bad.
If it goes the same way that I have observed here in the Bronx it will thrown out on cost alone if the numbers fail to turn up????????And use the chippie instead.

It's only an observation on my part I would love to see the figures for producing a meal in these schools, with staff as MEL;as pointed out, I bet they are higher than best restaurant you can name pro rata...............

I really think its something positive by removing the vending machines from schools as they encouraged pupils to eat and drink shite..............

 

[Desert Orchid]

Originally posted by Griffin+Oct 4 2006, 06:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Griffin @ Oct 4 2006, 06:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Merlin the Magician@Oct 4 2006, 06:44 PM
GRIFFIN do you think that this is more the norm than a one off???????????? and the kids I am talking about are a lot older not primary school children, I do think in time if its not abolished these children can obviously be taught to eat this healthier food way.

I don't believe it is a one off. There are many many children who bully their weak willed parents into feeding them crap, day in day out. Likewise there are those parents who will buy their kids a Macdonalds for dinner every night just because they can't be bothered to cook. People like that don't deserve to have children.

Daisy would like fish fingers, mashed potatoes and spaghetti for dinner every night, Molly would like chicken curry and Emily would like pizza but I am the one in charge and I decide what they eat, not them.

There is a whole generation of children for whom lessons on healthy eating seems to have been missed. And if the parents are now too feckless to teach their children and parent them correctly then it has to be done in schools right from the day they start. [/b][/quote]
I agree with so much of this.

I used to get into arguments with female colleagues - remember we're talking women with degrees and post-grad qualifications here - who whinged and whined every day about what each of their different kids were going to be asking for at night. When I said, "Who's in charge in your house?" they got very annoyed with me.

School meals started going down the tubes a generation ago when local authorities allowed schools to open their own version of fast-food outlets to replace canteens. It was a shortsighted reply to the proliferation of the big outlets. They should have introduced healthy eating education and policies at that time. It will probably take a generation to get us back wehere we should be but it will be worth persevering with. Whether the authorities will see it that way is another matter altogether.

 

[Griffin]

Originally posted by Desert Orchid@Oct 4 2006, 07:21 PM
As for school meals nowadays, it is ridiculous that it can cost more for a school meal than going down the road to buy something better. A two course meal at school - kids' sized portions - would set me back over £3. I can buy a good portion of microwavable lasagne and a pot of dessert at the local Co-op for less than £2.

£3 I thought the meals at my kids school was expensive at £1.80!

My mum is a dinner lady in a school described by OFSTED as 'being in one of the most deprived areas in the country'. They run a breakfast club from 8am where the children can have toast, juice and cereal for 40p. Dinners are £1.30. There are children there for whom I bet those two meals are the only meals they get fed every day. Mum, and dad if he's still around, are too busy stoned or drunk to feed their offspring. And why waste money on food when you can buy Special Brew instead? I know in the past she has taken food in to give to some children and last week she got told off for giving a free school dinner to a kid who had just half a stale burger bun in his lunch box.

 

[Songsheet]

DO & Griffin - how true. I am tired by the way it seems that children rule how adults run their houses and not vice versa, as it should be. Kids like reasonable parameters to grow within - just like most young animals! Sub-consciously, they translate reasonable sets of rules as a positive demonstration by their parents that they actually care.

Cooking a proper meal for your children and spouse and sitting down together to eat is just about the most simple and obvious way of showing them how much you care for them, in my opinion. And yes, of course there are families for whom this isn't possible, because their parents are shift workers etc but even one or two memorable meals together each week are better than nothing.

As to healthy eating = expensive food - what tripe that is! Inexpensive food means spending more time preparing and cooking it and that's why so many families can't be bothered to eat healthily - they are just too lazy to make the effort.


Right, she said virtuously, I'm off to make another batch of tomato and onion soup from my home grown tomatoes (apprx cost about £7 to grow and yields have been about 15kg so far...) and shallots (approx outlay = price of shallot set - about a tenner - yield another 15 kg). These are the last of the toms, sadly but next up will be my crop of butternut squash - roast, curried in soup - all cheap as chips, as Jamie would say...

 

[Songsheet]

And all credit to our local primary - they sound to be on the same wave length as Griff's.

Apparently one of the teachers telephoned a friend of mine to say that her son's lunch box was found to be full of sweets and that this wasn't acceptable! The little toad had taken a £1 to school with him and instead of going straight into school when dropped off by the school taxi, had gone into the community shop/post office next door and purchased said sweets.

My view is that she should ring the shop and tick them off about serving Rob, as they should know he would not be allowed to do anything other than go directly into school after being dropped off and also, as this is one of those 'community' driven and supported shops, it was morally wrong of them to have to have let him spend that much purely on sweets without an adult being present.

 

[PDJ]

Originally posted by Songsheet@Oct 4 2006, 07:54 PM


Cooking a proper meal for your children and spouse and sitting down together to eat is just about the most simple and obvious way of showing them how much you care for them, in my opinion.

Quick survey of pupils done last year in my school. Out of a class of 31, 3 eat regularly with their parents/carers. 20 eat alone in their room and the others eat in front of the television. I am a big fan of eating around the table and still do it on Sundays when I visit my parents. Dinner is an event and lasts 2 or 3 hours, most of which is filled with conversation. I learned a lot at that table. Kids miss out now.

 

[PDJ]

I really don't think that sweet shops and their owners have morals, Julie, as much as I would like them to have. They are in it for the profit and nowt else.

 

[Kathy]

Originally posted by Songsheet@Oct 4 2006, 06:54 PM
Right, she said virtuously, I'm off to make another batch of tomato and onion soup from my home grown tomatoes

I think Melendez would like to come to dinner (evidently he is a bit partial to a meal of soup, soup, soup), Songsheet, and I am desperate to find something nice to dip my stale bread and lard in.....apart from Strongbrew :blink: