Jan Brueghel out of Melbourne Cup

I guess they can’t risk the negative press if there’s another fatality. I know the “Lads” did all the checks on him before he left, but Anthony Van Dyke presumably had the same checks and he was a fatality.
 
jinnyj said:
I guess they can’t risk the negative press if there’s another fatality. I know the “Lads” did all the checks on him before he left, but Anthony Van Dyke presumably had the same checks and he was a fatality.
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Yes, that occurred to me.

They really should be thankful for the independent check.
 
Desert Orchid said:
Yes, that occurred to me.

They really should be thankful for the independent check.
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Why would they be thankful -they have travelled the horse half way around the world to run in the Cup.There is always a risk when you run a horse of any age flat or jumps -no risk no reward.
 
Their country, their prize money, their rules.

What part of that is so hard to understand?

Cracking trainer, obviously, but he's showing no quality with the tirade the RP is reporting tonight.

If he can't graciously accept their rulings, he shouldn't enter their races.
 
I think it's more frustration as I'm sure the coolmore vets did the same scans and it's a long way to go to not get a run. Heading for the Hong Kong vase instead. Should be interesting.
 
Ian_Davies said:
Their country, their prize money, their rules.

What part of that is so hard to understand?

Cracking trainer, obviously, but he's showing no quality with the tirade the RP is reporting tonight.

If he cawn't graciously accept their rulings, he shouldn't enter their races.
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Who was it that said show me a Good loser and I will show you a loser.
More importantly is City of Troy a massive place lay on Saturday.
 
Yeah, I get what you mean, Luke, but all this stuff I'm reading slating Australian racing tonight....if people don't rate it, don't try to participate in it.

If I was the Aussies I'd remove this issue in future years by declining entries from overseas runners - no one has a divine right to enter someone else's horse race and this seems to get forgotten in this era of rampant self entitlement.

City Of Troy is an interesting one.

On paper, given the appalling historical record of Turf horses on dirt, he is a crazy price.

But no one wants to look a right charlie by opposing a horse like that in case they go and do it plus, much though I like Fierceness, he's not been the most consistent and I think that, though he won narrowly won the Travers, 1m1f might be his best trip.

If City Of Troy is ridden the way he was at York, he will at least avoid the kickback out in front, but he's absolutely no value at current odds.
 
I think his frustration is not with the rules, protocols and norms of Australian racing. I think its that their judgement calls into question the capability, professionalism and integrity of him, his stable, his staff and his organisation. That is worth far more to him than a few million Aus $.
 
Interesting point imo.

I've been following the debate on social media and, hand on heart, I struggle with the concept that many people - Kevin Blake and Emmet Kennedy in particular - are objective and impartial in their views.

They seem to be saying that, because it's O'Brien and Coolmore, their horses' fitness to take part shouldn't even be questioned.

But if they are going to have rules, those rules need to apply to literally everyone.
 
an capall said:
I think his frustration is not with the rules, protocols and norms of Australian racing. I think its that their judgement calls into question the capability, professionalism and integrity of him, his stable, his staff and his organisation. That is worth far more to him than a few million Aus $.
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I do agree with this and, given how much they have invested in facilities and technology at Ballydoyle over the decades, it is easy to understand their frustration.

I didn't read beyond skimming the first RP article but did AOB actually say he was 'furious' as reported in one of the headlines?

They may themselves have identified the 'heightened risk' of injury and decided it was a risk worth taking. That would, imo, call into question their motives.

If they didn't identify it, it would call into question their facilities, technology or veterinary knowledge.

Either way, the authorities are the ones looking to be doing the right thing.
 
I've had the opportunity to visit and tour Ballydoyle. To my untrained ears/eyes, the facilities and description of the resources and science deployed in their medical facilities was impressive. I was taken step by step through the treatment employed to recover Kyprios - jaw dropping in technology, care and patience.

These people know horse physiology and have a much stronger interest in the long term viability and health of Jan Brueghel than a racecourse vet in Melbourne.
 
You can't let outfits self assess, no matter how good their facilities or people might be.

It has to one rule for all, so they are all assessed by a racecourse vet, whether that be Melbourne or anywhere else.

Sounds to me like a case of finding out they are in a jurisdiction where they have no clout and not liking it.

They wouldn't be the first or last.

In Britain you sometimes get the absurd situation where John Gosden walks Ascot with the clerk of the course, bending his ear, when his entry in a big race gives him a clear conflict of interest, yet no one says a word about it in the media.

Gosden is rumoured to have tried that at a Breeders' Cup - once.

"I will have to withdraw my horse if you don't water."

"Withdraw, then."

Racing imo is often so much more egalitarian outside of Britain and Ireland and there's a few who don't like that - they think they should just be able to plunder races abroad on their own terms.

Self entitlement writ large imo.
 
All true Ian, but perhaps the decision process could be a little more inclusive and more informed opinions could be heard.

AOB had an emotional reaction to a bureaucratic process (with a smell of 'me feinerism' about it), mostly because his voice wasn't heard in my opinion. When I interface with a call-centre I fully realise I'm engaging with a defined operational process. But I still get angry when the line is cut off after a silent wait for 30 mins.
 
I definitely agree it could be a more inclusive process.

Tbf, I've always thought O'Brien generally conducts himself very well - and was really polite the only time I ever spoke to him - and his reaction was out of character here.

It's a shame the horse can't run, it's also a shame that, being a strong overseas contender, the visuals aren't great.

A more publicly-transparent process would help.

What of next year?

O'Brien knows now what he's getting into if he enters one.

And one banker is the hosts won't be shifting their position over what is, after all, their race.

Will O'Brien bother?

We shall see.
 
Given that it's not a cheap exercise (but, to be fair, also not one undertaken by poor people) to travel, maybe the Australian vets should do their tests in Europe before the horses have travelled. if they are clear at that stage then some sort of insurance system could be available with a refund due if the tests are repeated and failed in Australia. Either the Okkers want overseas entries or they don't.
 
O'Brien said: "The Australian people are coming over to check them in the next few days. They are all getting scanned over the next while and then they check them, but very few horses pass the criteria, especially young horses. It's very difficult for three-year-olds to get through because they are still growing and their bones are still maturing so I wouldn't be sure about any of them getting in and being allowed to run. It's ridiculous really."

He added: "Because they are three-year-olds, they are not as formed as older horses, and there will be things that show up in their scans, but they are not prepared to forgive anything. The same horse who scans wrong this year could scan perfect next year because they are only three turning four and have yet to fully develop. But we're only guests down there in Australia and we play under their rules and that's just the way it is."
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The above quote is from an article a few weeks ago, when he still had several horses in the race. It shows that extensive tests already take place in Europe before horses travel, and that Australian vets do come over here to carry out checks beforehand. Presumably his frustration comes from having got through the preliminary test only to fail after getting to Australia.
 
An owner was asked, by his trainer, to consider having a horse capable of running in the Melbourne Cup, a once in a lifetime bucket list experience for any serious horse owner.
He inquired as to what it cost to get a horse to race there, trip costs all in.
300k was the reply.
3 year olds have a greater risk of failing the scans as their bones are not fully developed; the lads are well aware of this.
There was a question of a horse running in an Irish Group one last year, the racecourse vet was overruled , the horse won but was never the same horse after.
As a friend and colleague once said, " You need to wear long trousers , suitably coloured to deal with horsemen !"
 
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