Jumps Race Videos

The one that got away.

Arkle being we and truly beaten in the Massey Ferguson Gold Cup.

The race was won by the talented Flying Wild but she was very lucky as Buona Notte cantering all over her and Arkle crashed through the last fence.

Losing all momentum he picked himself up flew past Arkle and just failed to get up and was beaten in a photo.

An epic race yet no video or photos of the race exist in the media vaults.

Why? because it would serve to knock a huge hole in the myth that Arkle was 21lbs superior to todays chasers.
 
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Tanlic said:
The one that got away.

Arkle being we and truly beaten in the Massey Ferguson Gold Cup.

The race was won by the talented Flying Wild but she was very lucky as Buona Notte cantering all over her and Arkle crashed through the last fence.

Losing all momentum he picked himself up flew past Arkle and just failed to get up and was beaten in a photo.

An epic race yet no video or photos of the race exist in the media vaults.

Why? because it would serve to knock a huge hole in the myth that Arkle was 21lbs superior to todays chasers.
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I think you having a laugh Tanlic on this one. Arkle carried 12-10, Flying Wild 10-00. Arkle lost by a length over a trip short of his best, 2.5 miles.

You say Flying Wild was talented, yes, so what would he be rated now? Talented would be a 165+ horse yes?

Just using basic maths Flying Wild was 30lb inferior to Arkle over a trip that would not have suited Arkle.

Also bearing in mind, this race was just one week after Arkle won the Hennesey. How many Hennesey winners, a week after, ran over a trip 6f shorter giving 32lbs to a 165 horse? List them here.

Poor argument chap.
 
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You mean you read in the media wriiten by Arkle defenders it was too short for Arkle...

The same people who were boasting he had the speed to win the Cesarewitch Handicap


The same people who neglected to mention Arkle had won for the 2nd year on the trot
the Carey's Cottage Handicap Chase over 2m4f at Gowran park only weeks beforehand
plus he won 5 times at 2m and 2m4f over fences. It was a lame excuse.

Buona Notte was regarded by Bob Turnell the best horse he had ever trained and he said after the Mackeson no horse would
give weight and a beating to him over 3 miles. Needless to say no one mentioned that the distance was short of Buone Notte's best.

He was unbeaten over hurdles, won the Supreme and was champion Novice beating Dunkirk who had beaten Mill House albeit over 2miles.

He won over 3 miles and won the HenryIII and unbeaten over fences

In his very first 2nd season Chace he beats Arkle getting 26lbs and would have beaten him hands down bar for that disatrous blunder at the last........Over a distance too short for him.

That alone blows Arkle's 212 right out of the water, Unless Bouna Notte was superior to Kauto Star.

At the risk of offending you if you think Arkle was actually 21 lbs superior to even this years Gold Cup winner you are wired to the moon....it's a fairy story
 
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Tanlic said:
You mean you read in the media wriiten by Arkle defenders it was too short for Arkle...

The same people who were boasting he had the speed to win the Cesarewitch Handicap


The same people who neglected to mention Arkle had won for the 2nd year on the trot
the Carey's Cottage Handicap Chase over 2m4f at Gowran park only weeks beforehand
plus he won 5 times at 2m and 2m4f over fences. It was a lame excuse.

Buona Notte was regarded by Bob Turnell the best horse he had ever trained and he said after the Mackeson no horse would
give weight and a beating to him over 3 miles. Needless to say no one mentioned that the distance was short of Buone Notte's best.

He was unbeaten over hurdles, won the Supreme and was champion Novice beating Dunkirk who had beaten Mill House albeit over 2miles.

He won over 3 miles and won the HenryIII and unbeaten over fences

In his very first 2nd season Chace he beats Arkle getting 26lbs and would have beaten him hands down bar for that disatrous blunder at the last........Over a distance too short for him.

That alone blows Arkle's 212 right out of the water, Unless Bouna Notte was superior to Kauto Star.

At the risk of offending you if you think Arkle was actually 21 lbs superior to even this years Gold Cup winner you are wired to the moon....it's a fairy story
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That is some poor work there Tanlic. If I had a basket of straws, you would be clutching for the lot. You really have a bee in your bonnet about Arkle. It is all based on your love for Sprinter Sacre isn't it?

You actually think a horse needs speed to win a Cesarewitch? Come on man, being silly now.
 
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Basket of straws? It actually happened my friend. Timeform's the fairy story.

Let's for one minute say the trip didn't suit Arkle and he failed to give a very good horse 26lbs in Bouna Notte who should really have won the race by a few lengths which anyone who saw it would agree with.

How does that compare to Crisp failing by 1 length to give Red Rum 25lbs over a trip way beyond his best witha dual Gold Cup winner back in 3rd. ?

Or Kauto Star beating a Hennessy winner who carried a stone more than Stalbridge Colonist did into 2nd place by a distance?
 
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Tanlic said:
Basket of straws? It actually happened my friend. Timeform's the fairy story.

Let's for one minute say the trip didn't suit Arkle and he failed to give a very good horse 26lbs in Bouna Notte who should really have won the race by a few lengths which anyone who saw it would agree with.

How does that compare to Crisp failing by 1 length to give Red Rum 25lbs over a trip way beyond his best witha dual Gold Cup winner back in 3rd. ?

Or Kauto Star beating a Hennessy winner who carried a stone more than Stalbridge Colonist did into 2nd place by a distance?
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Those are some desperate straws you clutching chap. You are flailing about Tanlic, all over the place.
 
Desperate straws ?

They are hard facts that you can't dispute and aare not prepared to look into.

You accept what the race selling media tell you as gospel.

There are many examples to dispute Arkle's 212 rating.

His best ever performance was the Gallacher Gold Cup and all they can say is he beat Mill House by x amount giving him x amount.

Nothing about Mill House suffering from a bad back most of his career or that he was trounced by Rondetto in that very race.

Arkle gave Rondetto who won the Hennessy off 10st 1lb 35 lbs and beat him 20 lengths that day......That is the equivelant of giving him 55 lbs.

The most recent Hennessy winner carrying 10st was Cloth Cap rated 132 at the time. Kauto Star was rated 56lbs his superior.

Try the same excesrice with Brasher who Arkle beat by 5 lengths giving him 35lbs the equivelant of 40lbs. Brasher won the Scottish Grand nationional off 10stone as did Merigo and Joe Farrell recently

Meringo 132 and Joe Farrell 135 were rated almost 60 lbs inferior to Kauto 193

Could Kauto have given either of them 35lbs............yeah and the rest.

Arkle is in my mind the best I ever saw but 212? belongs in an Andy Pandy show.
 
Tanlic said:
Desperate straws ?

They are hard facts that you can't dispute and aare not prepared to look into.

You accept what the race selling media tell you as gospel.

There are many examples to dispute Arkle's 212 rating.

His best ever performance was the Gallacher Gold Cup and all they can say is he beat Mill House by x amount giving him x amount.

Nothing about Mill House suffering from a bad back most of his career or that he was trounced by Rondetto in that very race.

Arkle gave Rondetto who won the Hennessy off 10st 1lb 35 lbs and beat him 20 lengths that day......That is the equivelant of giving him 55 lbs.

The most recent Hennessy winner carrying 10st was Cloth Cap rated 132 at the time. Kauto Star was rated 56lbs his superior.

Try the same excesrice with Brasher who Arkle beat by 5 lengths giving him 35lbs the equivelant of 40lbs. Brasher won the Scottish Grand nationional off 10stone as did Merigo and Joe Farrell recently

Meringo 132 and Joe Farrell 135 were rated almost 60 lbs inferior to Kauto 193

Could Kauto have given either of them 35lbs............yeah and the rest.

Arkle is in my mind the best I ever saw but 212? belongs in an Andy Pandy show.
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Tanlic, please believe me, I am an independent thinker, you should know that by now chap..

"You accept what the race selling media tell you as gospel."

I really don't, in fact I'd say I am exactly the opposite of that. We never going to agree on this. But I will ask you a simple question..is your oppostion to Arkle being whatever rating..based on your love for Sprinter Sacre?

Serious question that Tanlic, be honest. SS is one of the most impressive horses I have ever seen, you watch him absolutely cruising and every other horse behind is f**ked and in another vicinity.

I get it, he was bloody awesome.
 
Sprinter Sacre's time at the very top only lasted a short time before he was struck with a heart problem.

Had he been sound throughout his career and won 4 QMCC you could have talked about him in the same breath as Arkle.

However as we know it all went wrong and despite his amzing comeback he was never as good again.

Flyingbolt had health problems and to me was best at shorter trips but he never ever took on anything in the same league as Sizing Europe,

I'd put Sprinter Sacre ahead of Flyingbolt I honestly think this height O' Fashion comparison was misleading and misused

When Flyingbolt beat her she was at the end of her career 5 years after winning the Irish Cesarewitch.

I simply can not compare Arkle and Sprinter Sacre. Arke won over 2 miles but would have struggled with Sprinter Sacre at that trip and over the Gold Cup trip Arkle would be back in his horse box before Sprinter jumped the last.

As I said before I find it impossible to believe Arkle would have given Kauto Star 20lbs round Kempton..

Kauto was abit like Sprinter Sacre and could up the ante 4 out and immeditaly have everything else off the bridle and he would keep up the gallop to the lane.

For me where Arkle was superior is he would have gone with him and use that spees he inherited from Nearco and drew away by 4 or 5 lenths like he did when he beat Mill House.

But beat kauto Star in his prime by 20 lengths.........surely anyone in their right mind can not believe that waould have been possible.

So to answer your question it has very little to do with Sprinter Sacre....Others like Wayward Lad Burroughill Lad Desert Orchid at their best were never 21lbs and more behind Arkle its a fairy story.
 
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what is the video that ITV were using to advertise something the day of the national? Looked like Arkle getting beaten into second by a fast finisher.
 
simmo said:
what is the video that ITV were using to advertise something the day of the national? Looked like Arkle getting beaten into second by a fast finisher.
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I wonder who you think it was? Was it a future Gold Cup placed horse receiving 35lb from Arkle? I wonder what a horse like that would be rated now beating a future GC second giving it 35lb? Mmmm, lets work this out.................
 
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Tanlic said:
Sprinter Sacre's time at the very top only lasted a short time before he was struck with a heart problem.

Had he been sound throughout his career and won 4 QMCC you could have talked about him in the same breath as Arkle.

However as we know it all went wrong and despite his amzing comeback he was never as good again.

Flyingbolt had health problems and to me was best at shorter trips but he never ever took on anything in the same league as Sizing Europe,

I'd put Sprinter Sacre ahead of Flyingbolt I honestly think this height O' Fashion comparison was misleading and misused

When Flyingbolt beat her she was at the end of her career 5 years after winning the Irish Cesarewitch.

I simply can not compare Arkle and Sprinter Sacre. Arke won over 2 miles but would have struggled with Sprinter Sacre at that trip and over the Gold Cup trip Arkle would be back in his horse box before Sprinter jumped the last.

As I said before I find it impossible to believe Arkle would have given Kauto Star 20lbs round Kempton..

Kauto was abit like Sprinter Sacre and could up the ante 4 out and immeditaly have everything else off the bridle and he would keep up the gallop to the lane.

For me where Arkle was superior is he would have gone with him and use that spees he inherited from Nearco and drew away by 4 or 5 lenths like he did when he beat Mill House.

But beat kauto Star in his prime by 20 lengths.........surely anyone in their right mind can not believe that waould have been possible.

So to answer your question it has very little to do with Sprinter Sacre....Others like Wayward Lad Burroughill Lad Desert Orchid at their best were never 21lbs and more behind Arkle its a fairy story.
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Had he been sound throughout his career and won 4 QMCC you could have talked about him in the same breath as Arkle.

Remind me what distances Arkle won at? That is like comparing Dancing Brave with Dayjur. Are you real?

Flyingbolt had health problems and to me was best at shorter trips but he never ever took on anything in the same league as Sizing Europe,


Seriously? Please read what you have posted..ffs.

I'd put Sprinter Sacre ahead of Flyingbolt I honestly think this height O' Fashion comparison was misleading and misused


Could you explain that one?


As I said before I find it impossible to believe Arkle would have given Kauto Star 20lbs round Kempton..

How? Any evidence for that view?

But beat kauto Star in his prime by 20 lengths.........surely anyone in their right mind can not believe that waould have been possible.

That just shows the limit of your understanding of what is possible re horses. Not long ago, it was said that a 130 flat horse could not be beaten a stone by another horse..guess what? ..it happened.

Others like Wayward Lad Burroughill Lad Desert Orchid at their best were never 21lbs and more behind Arkle its a fairy story.

Any evidence to back that up? What distance we talking here? Arkle would have eaten the lot over the GC distance. Wayward Lad was a short runner over 3m2 at Cheltenham, DO would never have beaten Arkle in the GC. Arkle would have beaten both easily. What is it with fairy stories that you seem to like quoting? Burroughill Lad to beat Arkle?..good luck with that bet chap.

The truth is you will run down Arkle until the cows come home to keep hyping up your favourite horse. SS was a brilliant horse, he was not Arkle lad though, no matter how much you want it to be true.

Just a question or two for you.

Which horse did the whole handicapping system have to be changed for?

Another question..name the second horse they had to change the handicapping system for?

Look forward to the answer to all of those, but particularly the last two.
 
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EC21 said:
I wonder who you think it was? Was it a future Gold Cup placed horse receiving 35lb from Arkle? I wonder what a horse like that would be rated now beating a future GC second giving it 35lb? Mmmm, lets work this out.................
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To be honest, I'm wondering if it is Tanlic's missing video!! :lol:
 
EC21 said:
Had he been sound throughout his career and won 4 QMCC you could have talked about him in the same breath as Arkle.

Remind me what distances Arkle won at? That is like comparing Dancing Brave with Dayjur. Are you real?

What has that got to do with what I posted?.....I was comparing Sprinter Sacre's achievements with Arkle's achievments at their respevtive distances.
FYI Arkle won Once at at 1m6f, Three times at 2 miles, Once at 2m1f, Once at 2m2f and Three times at 2m4f.

Flyingbolt had health problems and to me was best at shorter trips but he never ever took on anything in the same league as Sizing Europe,


Seriously? Please read what you have posted..ffs. You try doing some studying before commenting..Name me one top class horse he beat?
As for the trip again FTI Flyingbolt when trained by Dreaper won 17 times at 2miles to 2m4f he ran over 3 miles only twice on park courses.
Hardly a reccomendation to say he could have beaten Arkle over 3m2f on the stiff undulating track in a gold cup.

I'd put Sprinter Sacre ahead of Flyingbolt I honestly think this height O' Fashion comparison was misleading and misused


Could you explain that one? As mentioned before despite some pundits saying Height O' Fashion was no back number like any horse she was getting slower as she got olderl
The pundidt are quick to say Arkle gave her 33lbs but Flyingbolt gave her 42lbs....What they fail to mention is after that Arkle met her again badly in need of the race accosrding to Pat Taffe and beat her a neck giving her 42 lbs as Flyingbolt had.
to measure how much Arkle needed this prep race look back and see what was 3rd........Splash and they didn't come slower than him.

You want to measure Arkle.......Freddie finished 2nd in the National twice carrying 11st 10lbs and 11st7lbs was different class to Height O' Fashion. Arkle beat him into 2nd in The Hennessy giving him over 2stone.Flyingbolt never acheived anything like that

As I said before I find it impossible to believe Arkle would have given Kauto Star 20lbs round Kempton..

How? Any evidence for that view? You got any evidence he could? I don't but common sense and logic tells me Arkle was a horse and every horse has his limits,

Kauto Stra beat a high class field including Bowl winner Nacarat, Hennessy winner Madison Du Berlais, Gold Cup and Massey Ferguson winner Imperial Commander Massey Ferguson 2nd Barber Shop and the RyanAir duakl winner and Rsa winner Aleberrta's Run
which Kauto Stra won by a distance 10 seconds faster than long Run won on the same card............For Arkle or any other horse to have beaten him 21 lengths that day they would have to have run faster than Secreteriat for 3 miles.
No where's your logic if you say he could have???

But beat kauto Star in his prime by 20 lengths.........surely anyone in their right mind can not believe that waould have been possible.

That just shows the limit of your understanding of what is possible re horses. Not long ago, it was said that a 130 flat horse could not be beaten a stone by another horse..guess what? ..it happened.
What on earth are you going on about that is complete nonsense..........Sea Bird could have given 2 stone to 90% of horses that ever graced the turf

Others like Wayward Lad Burroughill Lad Desert Orchid at their best were never 21lbs and more behind Arkle its a fairy story.

Any evidence to back that up? What distance we talking here? Arkle would have eaten the lot over the GC distance. Wayward Lad was a short runner over 3m2 at Cheltenham, DO would never have beaten Arkle in the GC. Arkle would have beaten both easily. What is it with fairy stories that you seem to like quoting? Burroughill Lad to beat Arkle?..good luck with that bet chap. Did I say Arkle would not have beaten them I said he would not have given them 21lbs and I never said Gold Cup I am taking the ultimate distance of 3 miles. EG Dessie Burroughill Lad or Wayward lad who won King George 8 times between them.......when the hell did Arkle ever meet anything as good as them and WIN? Once that's how many when he beat Mill House in his first gold cup......FYI Mill House lost 17 times after that,

The truth is you will run down Arkle until the cows come home to keep hyping up your favourite horse. SS was a brilliant horse, he was not Arkle lad though, no matter how much you want it to be true.

Just a question or two for you. You're obsessed with that which is complete nonsense I am comparing Arkle to Kauto Star a King George winner 5 times and dual Gold Cup winner not to Sprinter Sacre

Which horse did the whole handicapping system have to be changed for? That is a really dumb question Do you think for one minute if racing was still handicaps that Kauto Star would not have to give others 3 stone or many of them would have to run out of the handicap?

Another question..name the second horse they had to change the handicapping system for?

Look forward to the answer to all of those, but particularly the last two.
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simmo said:
I don't think there's any need for that. There was a video being shown on ITV and I wondered if it was the one you were looking for. As simple as that.
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Sorry Simmo I never saw you're original post and I thought you were taking the pi$$ deepest apologies
 
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