Kauto Star Or Denman

Kauto or Debman

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Euronymous

Euronymous

Senior Jockey
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From James Willoughby`s column in the Post today:

According to Findlay, Denmania is sweeping the nation and the infectious belief in him has spread to racing`s best judges. "If you lined up the shrewdest people in this great game of ours, more would tell you that the Gold Cup is Denman`s race than Kauto Star`s. I guarantee it."

Earlier in the column he suggests next month`s big race is like Arkle and Mill House all over again. Of course most shrewdies then were in the Mill House camp.

Is he right?
 
I've tended to be in the Denman camp, but the King George was very taking. I think a lot is going to depend on how the race is run, and it is this that's making me lean towards Denman, as I think he has the capacity to take Kauto into hitherto unchartered water, which is no place to be about a short priced favourite.

Still, I applaud Harry for trying to talk the spectacle up though we could do with it featuring on the back pages of the sports section rather than the trade press, as it's clearly a golden chance to show case the game, and reach out to an audience that would normally be ambivluent.
 
Originally posted by Warbler@Feb 9 2008, 09:59 AM
I think a lot is going to depend on how the race is run, and it is this that's making me lean towards Denman, as I think he has the capacity to take Kauto into hitherto unchartered water, which is no place to be about a short priced favourite.
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I was in the Kauto camp as i thought the bookies over-reacted to Denman`s Hennessey win, but you changed my mind on this. I laid KS in the Gold Cup last year on the basis that his stamina would give out over a truly run 3m2f - unfortunately we didn`t get that. We should get a faster run contest this year.

Also, from a sporting if not betting point of view i`ve always preffered gallopers to turn of foot animals. I favoured Generous and Dubai Millennium over Suave Dancer and Montjeu and i`ll be backing Denman for the Gold Cup (hopefully on the day when i can see him drifting to 3s as a welter of money comes in for the favourite)
 
Originally posted by Euronymous@Feb 9 2008, 10:17 AM
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I was in the Kauto camp as i thought the bookies over-reacted to Denman`s Hennessey win, but you changed my mind on this. [/quote]
Oh dear :eek:

I still think however, that Monkerhostin e/w at 25/1 without Kauto Star, Denman and Exotic Dancer is the better value. He's been kept quiet this year, doesn't have history of falling, and only needs to replicate his run from last season to oblige
 
Racing is chance but having watched racing for 30 years. Kauto Star is the best, no very best, chaser I've seen and that includes the likes of Best Mate and Dessie at their peak on their favoured tracks and going.

If you watch KS jump. it seems that he is built in such away that his centre of gravity never overtakes his frame, falling just seems impossible. He finishes like a high performance vehicle.

I won't be backing him, simply because I dont bet even money but I just can't seen Denman in the same class bracket.

MR2
 
I was really impressed with Denman again today. I know he won as expected but it is a great thrill to watch a horse just gallop his rivals into the ground with such ease. He reminds me very much of Carvill's Hill although he's a much better jumper than the Pipe horse was. It's going to be exciting watching him in the Gold Cup trying to gallop his rivals into submission. I still think though that in the big race Kauto Star will have the extra gear at the business end of the race to win. He was just so impressive in the King George last time out. To be honest I also feel that Denman will be vulnerable to Exotic Dancer on the day as well and I think ED is great each-way value at the current prices. Tony McCoy will go back to riding a waiting race with him and with a likely quick pace it'll suit him down to the ground.
 
Gal,you learnt something surely. 1. The horse is well. 2. Sam Thomas is learning more about him. 3. His jumping is getting faster. 4. He has an engine like a 747. 5. Nicholls clearly thinks he's still undercooked.
 
Denman impressed me massively today, and if the Gold Cup were at Newbury my money would be on him. However, bear in mind how easy Kauto Star made beating the likes of Our Vic & Racing Demon look in the KG, and they are in a different league to Ollie Magern & Celestial Gold.

I'm still on Kauto Star. The only thing that can beat him is the hill IMO.
 
Just hope that the spectacle isnt ruined by an early fall and we get to see them finish
 
If I lie back, close my eyes and think about it. I can see Denman in the lead at the top of the hill, Kauto Star on the bridle behind him and the rest under pressure. The gap between the front two and the field continues to grow as they round the turn (15-20 lengths now).

Kauto does him for toe up the hill. Denman a gallant second. The rest nowhere (headed by Exotic Dancer staying on).

As harry says, lets just hope they both get that far.
 
Uncle Goober will have much better photos of Denman but I thought I would put these up on this thread taken at Newbury today.

DENMANATNEWBURY9THFEBRUARY2008024.jpg


DENMANATNEWBURY9THFEBRUARY2008026.jpg


DENMANATNEWBURY9THFEBRUARY2008017.jpg
 
Lovely photos Kathy, thanks.
And I go for Kauto Star. I know he has to overturn the stat that they rarely win more than one, bit still think he's a grand horse.
 
Denman is getting better and better, and here's more to come. I never thought i'd dessert Kauto, but i'm firmly in the Denman camp now. I think 2/1 in a genuine 2 horse race is decent value.
 
Originally posted by topcat@Feb 9 2008, 08:42 AM
Kauto star pure class.
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The point is, they are both pure class.

I stood somewhere near Kathy today, when Deman was walking - he was striding more like - round the paddock.

He looked a monster, but then he did the first time I saw him Cheltenham 2006. But today he looked ready to eat them... the first two circuits of Newbury's generous parade ring he was quiet, patien, relaxed ... I left to find a pitch on the rails before they'd even saddled up. He was already gnashing and grinding and flexing his muscles before I left, after four or five circuits.

He was cantering the first time he passed us. OK he fluffed one fence coming down the home strait.
But he was still cantering when he passed us the second time, about 100 yards from the post, and brave wee Ollie Magern who had tried at least to give him a bit of a race, came over the line in fourth - last - at a walk.

I envy anyone who has a badge for Gold Cup day. This match will be something to savour
 
Well, I was a big Mill House fan, would never have described myself as a shrewdie, and hated Arkle for what he did to my horse.

I have seen Kauto Star and Denman in the flesh and Denman is the one I would want to take home.

I was very impressed with the Hennessy win, not quite so much with the win in Ireland or yesterday's, he actually made a mistake at one of the fences today.

Which is the better?.....................I have the Feeling that Kauto Star will do an Arkle on my Mill House (Denman) at Cheltenham this year.
 
I think the result is ground dependant. Given normal Festival ground I think Kauto's class and speed will win it, but if it happened to come up soft I can see Denman out-galloping and out-staying Kauto.
 
Originally posted by Maruco@Feb 10 2008, 11:20 AM
I think the result is ground dependent. Given normal Festival ground I think Kauto's class and speed will win it, but if it happened to come up soft I can see Denman out-galloping and out-staying Kauto.
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I remain firmly in the Kauto Star camp . His KG performance was nigh on awesome .

I am rather baffled by the two horse race talk . Exotic Dancer's best form puts him well up there- only a length down at Haydock on KS. The KG tactical change on him was a mistake and the horse adores Cheltenham - the question is whether after his niggle and with Jonjo' s team still not firing on all cylinders whether he will be in the same form this year.

It would be no surprise to me to see Denman third in the GC.
 
Originally posted by an capall@Feb 9 2008, 04:58 PM
Gal,you learnt something surely. 1. The horse is well. 2. Sam Thomas is learning more about him. 3. His jumping is getting faster. 4. He has an engine like a 747. 5. Nicholls clearly thinks he's still undercooked.
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Granted we learnt the horse was well but aside from that nothing.

Sam Thomas is learning more about him.....in what regard is a 4 runner race going to teach him anything about how to ride him in a Gold Cup?

Jumping is getting faster? Again based on what a 4 runner even when the pressure wasnt on. He did make one bad mistake before the home straight. As for Nicholls opinion of the horse...I think he would take KS over him any day.

I really hope KS puts in a rusty performance next week similar to the one he put in the Aon Chase last year. He will blitz Denman regardless of the ground in the Gold Cup.
 
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