Kauto Star

No more demeaning than the smug, self satisfied "you'll have egg on your face once you know the TRUE story" from the Pumpkin groupies, no. Oh, & let's not forget that I'm in a very good position to hear tales too, some which Fanclub Ditcheat wouldn't like.
 
SL makes a great point. no matter what people "know" Kauto is still a hugely valuable horse. Clive will make a huge amount through marketing and promotion of the horse over the next few years. He has spent a massive amount on horse flesh and training fees over the last 10 years. Why on earth should he hand over the horse to the yard just coz one guy used to look after him every day. If PFN wanted him for HIS staff he should have made an offer to buy the horse. He is still worth £1m + in marketing deals alone. I would love to meet the guy on here who would happily hand that over for free.
 
Shadow Leader said:
No more demeaning than the smug, self satisfied "you'll have egg on your face once you know the TRUE story" from the Pumpkin groupies, no. Oh, & let's not forget that I'm in a very good position to hear tales too, some which Fanclub Ditcheat wouldn't like.
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Did you e-mail Brutto Cattivo about it, as per his request? He was the one who suggested that those siding with CS might perform a U-turn. I'm surprised you've labelled him a "pumpkin groupie", tbh.
 
You could start a whole new thread on "messy" retirements.
L'Escargot was gifted to Joan Moore by Raymond Guest until he showed up in Kerry National 1975 (beaten a head at 12/1 carrying 12/7) and was then removed to Virginia, the future Guest horses trained by Peter Bailey.
Wayward Lad, who went through Doncaster Sales as a 13 yo? for 42000 gns and retired to Ml Dickinson in USA. (I remember they suspected John Mulhern and Tommy Carmody might buy him for Point 2 points)
others among you may remember more...
 
You could start a whole new thread on "messy" retirements.
L'Escargot was gifted to Joan Moore by Raymond Guest until he showed up in Kerry National 1975 (beaten a head at 12/1 carrying 12/7) and was then removed to Virginia, the future Guest horses trained by Peter Bailey.
Wayward Lad, who went through Doncaster Sales as a 13 yo? for 42000 gns and retired to Ml Dickinson in USA. (I remember they suspected John Mulhern and Tommy Carmody might buy him for Point 2 points)
others among you may remember more...
 
Muttley said:
It's just a pity she can't make that point without being bloody rude
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Shouldn't waste your time responding, Mutley - if it makes SL feel good to call those who disagree with her views 'pony patters' or 'pumpkin groupies' , fair play to her - she seems unable to put any views across without being overly aggressive, something a few on here seem to get off on, apparently.

Which is laughable, as quite a few of those who share her opinion about Paul Nicholl's attitude seem to be as vociferous in their views as they deride him for being....
 
OTB said:
SL makes a great point. no matter what people "know" Kauto is still a hugely valuable horse. Clive will make a huge amount through marketing and promotion of the horse over the next few years. He has spent a massive amount on horse flesh and training fees over the last 10 years. Why on earth should he hand over the horse to the yard just coz one guy used to look after him every day. If PFN wanted him for HIS staff he should have made an offer to buy the horse. He is still worth £1m + in marketing deals alone. I would love to meet the guy on here who would happily hand that over for free.
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That in itself is an excellent point, and I wouldn't look to undermine it at all. It is, however, worth pointing out that those making criticisms of Clive Smith aren't doing so on the basis of the removal of Kauto Star, or his right as an owner to do so. Nor, I'd imagine, are they of the opinion that Paul Nicholls is without flaw.

From my viewpoint, it's clear that the campaigning of another horse(s) has potentially caused a rift which was worth patching up as long as KS stayed in training. His retirement allowed all that pent-up ill feeling to spill out. I'm aware of at least one interview in which Clive has been decidedly forgetful/loose with the facts in a way which paints PFN, unfairly, in a very bad light. I don't know what revelations which are promised are, but I know enough of CS to be a little wary.
 
I didn't think the suggestion was that Clive Smith should cease to own Kauto Star though - simply that he would be looked after by Clifford Baker ?
 
I think the only chance of the actual story ever coming out without any inkling of bias on either side, would be for the both of them to be in the same place, being asked at the same time. However hard you try not to, its human nature to try to paint yourself in the best light possible,regardless of whats actually gone on - so without both stories at exactly the same time, its just never going to be able to be 100% certain one way or the other. And why should it be - its nobodys business but theirs !!! Journalists and social media have given this way more sensationalism than it should have had IMO.

It certainally shouldnt still be being dragged out to this week - as I said a little while ago - it should be chip paper by now.

(and just for the record, though I have to be a bit careful what I say - Im not a particular fan of either of them,so no swing in one direction or the other.)
 
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Shadow Leader said:
No more demeaning than the smug, self satisfied "you'll have egg on your face once you know the TRUE story" from the Pumpkin groupies, no. Oh, & let's not forget that I'm in a very good position to hear tales too, some which Fanclub Ditcheat wouldn't like.
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So you state you don't like smug attitudes? How exactly do you think this post will come across?
 
Songsheet said:
Which is laughable, as quite a few of those who share her opinion about Paul Nicholl's attitude seem to be as vociferous in their views as they deride him for being....
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I don’t deride Paul Nichols for being vociferous, it is his insistence on taking the moral high ground and promoting himself to the detriment of others that sticks with me. He is a bully and a cry baby (when things don't go his way) imo.

I don’t get off on that. I simply don’t like it rammed in my face. I lose sympathy with that type of person.
 
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SteveM said:
I don’t deride Paul Nichols for being vociferous, it is his insistence on taking the moral high ground and promoting himself to the detriment of others that sticks with me. He is a bully and a cry baby (when things don't go his way) imo.

I don’t get off on that. I simply don’t like it rammed in my face. I lose sympathy with that type of person.
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My comments weren't aimed at you, Steve - I quite distinctly said 'some'.

And it's the media who are promoting most of this cr*p - as they do everyday in every aspect of our lives. They need to fill air time and print and this whole incident was a gift.
 
according to the rp nichols isnt the first trainer to have fallen out with smith his previous trainers pitman pipe and elseworth also had a falling out with him
 
Songsheet said:
My comments weren't aimed at you, Steve - I quite distinctly said 'some'.

And it's the media who are promoting most of this cr*p - as they do everyday in every aspect of our lives. They need to fill air time and print and this whole incident was a gift.
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I'd tend to agree as a rule - but the racing media have been provided ammunition on this subject for a while but have played it down. The row which was described by Smith at the owners' open day was highly visible/audible, but no racing journo saw fit to muddy the waters. That's either highly commendable, or a sign that racing journalism is hamstrung by the need to kiss powerful ass. You be the judge. :blink:
 
an capall said:
Is it a possibility that he is being 'freshened up' before being put back in training with a trainer other than Nicholls?
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I'd speculate that if there is anything 'more' to this particular aspect of the story than meets the eye, it's more likely that they want to have a stab at eventing with Kauto than it is they want to return him to training, but first they feel the need to evaluate his potential ability and aptitude for dressage (which forms one of the three elements of one- and three-day eventing). Laura Collett is an event rider, not a pure dressage rider, and Yogi Breisner is more widely known in the world of eventing than he is pure dressage.
 
My thoughts exactly Cruella.

Tweeted as much to Alice Plunkett back in MAY 2011 :

'@aliceplunkett . . .He's 2 young to retire. Does no 1 else think he looks like an event horse iw ? Bet WFP could sort out the flatwork :-) '

Maybe completely wrong but never seen anything to indicate that he would have the extravagent paces required for pure dressage, but everything looks in place for him to go eventing if they can teach him to settle for the SJ and XC, and the flat work would definitely be a key part in this respect.

Always looked to have pony-like agility and the ability to find an extra leg when needed . . . . Can't think of a more exciting XC ride :eek:
 
Songsheet said:
My comments weren't aimed at you, Steve - I quite distinctly said 'some'.

And it's the media who are promoting most of this cr*p - as they do everyday in every aspect of our lives. They need to fill air time and print and this whole incident was a gift.
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Indeed, the Editor of the RP got quite shirty when it was suggested to him that this was a non-story.
 
Desert is posting up ratings..
Steve M is putting us right..
Slim's giving Tanlic the batings...
Shadow is howling at night...

!!MERLIN!! is posting his !!JOKES!!..
Ardross tell's us he's correct..
Luke is tipping up yokes...
Del Boy is always erect

Krizon is off on a flounce
Songsheet just clings to good grace
Barry Bull tips six on the bounce
Nothing has changed at this place.
 
an capall said:
Desert is posting up ratings..
Steve M is putting us right..
Slim's giving Tanlic the batings...
Shadow is howling at night...

!!MERLIN!! is posting his !!JOKES!!..
Ardross tell's us he's correct..
Luke is tipping up yokes...
Del Boy is always erect

Krizon is off on a flounce
Songsheet just clings to good grace
Barry Bull tips six on the bounce
Nothing has changed at this place.
Click to expand...

:lol:
 
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