Fantastic horse I agree, but not a well deserved winner. Only won because the jockey cheated in the most flagrant manner. Hopefully this injust result will finally spur the BHA to amend the rules.
King George VI Chase - Boxing Day, Kempton
- Thread starter JamesRB
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Fantastic horse I agree, but not a well deserved winner. Only won because the jockey cheated in the most flagrant manner. Hopefully this injust result will finally spur the BHA to amend the rules.
I'm happy about Tizzard as he put alot of effort in his new stable and it paid out and also for Paddy who was so happy to land the ride and was so confident about winning the KG. I know that if not for his belief most of the jockeys would've given up after 3rd last but he kept on asking, moving on the rail and did everything he could to get there.
This was argued many times. The rule of disqualifying horses is ridiculous because it'd be a disproportionate action vs the offence, the whip rule is to protect the racing public not for anything else, it doesn't give horses an advantage its just a communicational tool to make them keep responding as they don't know where the finish line is. Its the jockey who should get the penalty if they keep giving the horse a repetitive signal without allowing time to respond, even the best jockeys get a bit emotional and use the whip more than necessary(which offends some racing public for which the rule exists) at the end of the race.
Ah lads leave it off will ya, Ruby got a whip ban too on for his efforts on Vautour after today so I suppose be cheated too??
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Grasshopper
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Both improved horses this season, I reckon, Simmo.
Frankel
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EC1
On a break
obv somewhat wrong, but still was value at those odds
you been on the sauce tonight i reckon..half of the field folded..he got 3rd by default of still be stood upright
if 3 london buses had been in the race they would have finished 3rd 4th + 5th
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No. Your comment betrays a complete ignorance of the whip rules and the penalties applied. Walsh's penalty of 2 days is the entry point for a heat-of-the-moment extra whack. Brennan's penalty of 11 days plus most of his percentage would only be applied in a case of a premeditated win-at-all-costs assault, which is exactly what Cue Card suffered.
Unless the BHA grasp the nettle and amend the rules to disqualify a horse whose jockey has exceeded a specific whip use, this will go on happening in the big races (remember Geraghty in the 2014 Bet365 Gold Cup?).
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Your our arguement is based on emotion instead of logic-the horse won the race on merit.
granger
Senior Jockey
BHA need stronger measures for whip misuse.
that we can all agree upon
that we can all agree upon
What did the horse do to deserve disqualification-it doesn't make sense to disqualify horses for breach of the whip rules-the horse won the race on the racetrack -amending the result would sicken punters which is the last thing a sport in decline needs.
Race of the season for me, though I called Cue Card completely wrong. Maybe the trapped epiglottis was the problem all along, though it begs the question - would another trainer have found it earlier? Cracking horse nevertheless, but still can't believe he'd last home in a GC.
As suspected, Don Cossack didn't have the speed for this, and I'd be wary of backing him for the GC on any ground with a hint of good in it. Vautour ran a blinder really, but he's essentially a galloper and though he's sure to improve again, the jury's still out on whether he'd stay the GC trip ridden in that manner.
As suspected, Don Cossack didn't have the speed for this, and I'd be wary of backing him for the GC on any ground with a hint of good in it. Vautour ran a blinder really, but he's essentially a galloper and though he's sure to improve again, the jury's still out on whether he'd stay the GC trip ridden in that manner.
granger
Senior Jockey
Like if a driver in a race takes a shortcut in a race, the team is disqualified and not just a ban for him
TheBear
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Are you suggesting for every race all bets are held until the race is reviewed for whip offences? Where would you draw the line for a disqualification? I agree with your sentiment but we all know who has the power in this game and they'd never agree to it.
Personally I don't think so-sometimes you just have to take it on the chin-In the Tingle Creek I thought Special Tiara would definitely have beaten Sire de Grugy if it wasn't for the mid air collision at the last but as a point of principle I am against disqualifying horses for incidents that occur while jumping.
Anyway the big bookmakers would go nuts if such a move was introduced.
Frankel
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Is clearly a tricky one to deal with. I personally would hate to see CC penalised for the actions of jockey, I mean it's not his fault. On the other hand in comparison Vautour was more within the boundaries. So completely get that. I though with the whip infringement would clamp down more heavily on the jock/connections/prize money.
Completely agree with LUKE regards the Tingle Creek, think the runner up would have won but he was never gonna get the decision.
Completely agree with LUKE regards the Tingle Creek, think the runner up would have won but he was never gonna get the decision.
TheBear
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I know it's not great comparing it with other sports but it's similar to a footballer winning a penalty by diving. After trial by TV it's obvious to everyone he cheated to change the result but you can't then alter the score retrospectively, you just have to punish the player. The analogy to motor racing is a bit sketchy because if a jockey takes the wrong course then the horse is in fact DQ'd.
The punishments on the jockey need to be more severe still. It may be difficult to implement but something on the lines of Brennan being banned from riding Cue Card in the Gold Cup rather than some random dates in the future where he'd earn a fraction of what he's done today.
The punishments on the jockey need to be more severe still. It may be difficult to implement but something on the lines of Brennan being banned from riding Cue Card in the Gold Cup rather than some random dates in the future where he'd earn a fraction of what he's done today.
the Tingle Creek mid-air interference involved 2 horses, both affected as much, if ST hadn't been there SDG would've just jumped without anything interfering him and vice-versa. ST then had all the time to pass SDG but couldn't, how could any steward with an honest approach to horse racing give the race to ST when he appeared beaten?
The whip rule doesn't give any advantage to a horse and it doesn't become less deserving if the jockey uses the whip.. the intention of the rule is for jockeys to stop being so brutal like it happened in the past for no reason other than showing that they try hard without giving their horse a chance to respond. Winning a race and whip rules are rightly separated matters.
The whip rule doesn't give any advantage to a horse and it doesn't become less deserving if the jockey uses the whip.. the intention of the rule is for jockeys to stop being so brutal like it happened in the past for no reason other than showing that they try hard without giving their horse a chance to respond. Winning a race and whip rules are rightly separated matters.
Vautour looked out on his feet - he ought to be running in the Champion Chase but no doubt won't
Cue Card game and valiant today - a different horse this year but he had a very hard race but I should be more confident that he would get the GC trip then ever before
Don Cossack looked tired to me - he ran an in and out race and although he was plugging on in to it the fall looked like a knackered one .
Cue Card game and valiant today - a different horse this year but he had a very hard race but I should be more confident that he would get the GC trip then ever before
Don Cossack looked tired to me - he ran an in and out race and although he was plugging on in to it the fall looked like a knackered one .
Len Madeiros
Rookie
If the whip rule gives no advantage to a horse, then why not ban the use other than for steering? There's no way CC would have won the race without the "assistance" of the whip yesterday.
Irish Stamp
Forum Moderator
Need to lose races in most blatant situations - would only take a week or two and jockey's would soon learn not to do it.
As things stand he's kept the race, owners are happy, trainers happy, jockey is punished but doesn't seem to care too much.
Would have been a clear second but for the rule breaches and Vautour a likely winner, if you want to throw them both out that would be fine too. More fool the two jockey's who were clearly on the best horses but would have lost the race due to a lack of skill/judgement when it comes to whip use.
Martin
As things stand he's kept the race, owners are happy, trainers happy, jockey is punished but doesn't seem to care too much.
Would have been a clear second but for the rule breaches and Vautour a likely winner, if you want to throw them both out that would be fine too. More fool the two jockey's who were clearly on the best horses but would have lost the race due to a lack of skill/judgement when it comes to whip use.
Martin