Latest Timeform Ratings

Tanlic - as Sprinter's biggest fan, I'd value your opinion as to whether you think he would have stayed 3 miles. He stayed two and half at Aintree, but was never tried beyond; although there were always rumours that he could have been targeted at the KG, at his peak.
 
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I think it was pretty obvious that Sprinter Sacre had 190+ in him from his novice season. Douvan, touch and go.
 
Len Madeiros said:
Tanlic - as Sprinter's biggest fan, I'd value your opinion as to whether you think he would have stayed 3 miles. He stayed two and half at Aintree, but was never tried beyond; although there were always rumours that he could have been targeted at the KG, at his peak.
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Never doubted it for a minute that he could have won a King George which let's be honest isn't all that much different to the Melling when you win it like he did. He had enough class to never come of the bridle round Kempton.

As for the Gold Cup ..all I can say is we will never know... but personally I think not. 3 miles would have been his limit but like you I'd be guesing
 
Euronymous said:
SS won in open company and beat Cue Card in his Arkle.
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That's true but you can only beat what's in front of you and had "Cue Card the novice" been in this years Arkle Douvan would have beaten him hands down.

I would also suggest you to look back at Cue Card 2012 and him now..there's no comparison.



From 3 out Douvan was 12 lengths faster in his Arkle but from 4 out to 3 out Sprinter was way faster.

No matter how you look at it Douvan would have kicked Cue Cards ass in the same manner he beat this years opposition
 
There were also classic clues on offer at Sandown on Friday, with Midterm – who was second-favourite for the Derby before the Group 3 Classic Trial – making his much anticipated second start. Though there was not a wide-margin victory or an explosive turn of foot on display in his one-and-a half-length defeat of Algometer (who is now rated 107p), there was still a lot to be positive about given the pair were eight lengths clear of the third, and it was a race that Midterm – who briefly ran green in the closing stages – should benefit a great deal from. He is now Timeform-rated 112p - the same as his sire Galileo was after his first three-year-old start
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The implied comparison with Galileo seems presumptious, given that in the race they mention Galileo beat Milan and Vinnie Roe, no less, by 3.5L and 1L ("ran on well, easily").
 
While I'm not a fan of Timeform, I think the comparison is valid enough.

I'm told Algometer is one of their horses to follow for this season and they pulled well clear. If Galileo was rated 112p at this stage then Milan would have been no higher than 105 and Vinnie Roe lower again. No-one was to know at that stage of the season that Milan was going to win the St Leger five months later and Vinnie Roe was off only 112 when winning the Irish St Leger, having won only two Listed races en route.

I don't think they're saying that Midterm is Galileo II, merely pointing to the coincidence with the sire. It's different from saying that X won the same trial as Y had done z many years ago therefore they are comparable (otherwise every Ballysax winner 'could' be as good as High Chaparral).

At this stage of the season it's normal to compare ratings achieved with ratings achieved by horses from previous seasons. Then again, maybe they're just trying to put the hype machine into the next gear up with a view to selling their product.

But I'm grateful for the debate. It's helping me get my head out of NH mode and into Flat mode ahead of the Guineas meeting (which I couldn't have told you was this weekend!)
 
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Not long finished their last Annual. I thought the ratings within were broadly OK, the most noteworthy overration probably being Highland Reel on 129 (they took his Hong Kong win over Flintshire way too literally.)
 
Possibly a bit off topic, but I noticed Timeform have started doing timefigures over the jumps. I couldn't see much more than a cursory introductory article on their website, intimating that they will be using sectionals etc as well as overall times.

Interested in any thoughts anyone has on here? I must admit I am pretty wary of jumps timefigures myself (although I can see the appeal of sectionals). More than happy to be proved wrong...
 
Interesting. I thought they gave up on NH timefigures a number of years ago because they were by and large proving meaningless. Wonder if they've tweaked their processes. (Sounds painful that.)

I do much less in the way of speed figures over jumps but definitely at the festival meetings.

The authorities have been more forthcoming with accurate measurements in the last couple of years but situations like last Sunday's when they were omitting obstacles all over the shop at Cheltenham make a nonsense of it all.
 
trackside528 said:
Possibly a bit off topic, but I noticed Timeform have started doing timefigures over the jumps. I couldn't see much more than a cursory introductory article on their website, intimating that they will be using sectionals etc as well as overall times.

Interested in any thoughts anyone has on here? I must admit I am pretty wary of jumps timefigures myself (although I can see the appeal of sectionals). More than happy to be proved wrong...
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Be wary of any "sectionals'' that aren't furlong by furlong times. Timeform often use 3 or 4 furlong tranches to judge pace, which is laughable considering the number of possible pace changes within that distance; in NH racing. Still not forgiven them for the conclusion that Hurricane Fly 'outstayed' stayers in the 013 CH.
Faugheen was mightily impressive lat Sunday, but has been accorded a 169 s/f apparently based on little science other than other race times that weekend.
HRI did promise proper sectionals would be in place this season, but have yet to materialise.
 
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Only sectionals that matter as far as I am concerned is from when the race starts in earnest ....from A to B is not as informative as B to C is IMO and don't give me that slow pace fast pace crap a good horse will adapt no matter the early pace and using time with bad horses is a no no anyway

In other words if 2 horses run on the same ground and one takes 54 seconds from the 3rd last to cross the line at Carlisle and horse y takes 56 seconds then no matter the early pace I know all things being equal which one I will back if the clash again.

The only worry is: people have been trying all these methods for the last 100 years but here we all are still trying to work out how to make that first million...:cool:
 
On The Blind Side (151p from 136p) May be ok from Timeform but has the handicapper got it in for Nicky Henderson or what

Usually lower than TF He hit him with a 153 That just about puts him on a par with the likes of Champion Hurdle contender Melon and 10 lbs higher than Defi was after he had won 2 Grade 1;s

Unfair prejudice ?
 
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