Lockinge
- Thread starter SteveM
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Bar the Bull
At the Start
Frankel (2/5) , Excelebration (7/2) , So You Think (9) , Strong Suit (10) , Dubawi Gold (40) , Red Jazz (50) , Windsor Palace (50) , Ransom Note (66) , Bullet Train (100)
Wouldn't be at all surprised to see So You Think as the main Coolmore hope, as Excelebration has little to gain from chasing Frankel's rear again.
If so, and the ground remains as it is, Frankel will know he's had a race also.
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Fair enough if that's what you think suny, but I wouldn't be so quick to say one is any better than another. They have both run consistently in the high 120s Excelebration hitting 129 once and So You Think hitting 128 or 129 eight times. It's simply who's best for this race.
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Euronymous
Senior Jockey
I agree with suny. So You Think's main attribute is his remarkable consistency but Excelebration's run in the QE11 is a better piece of form than anything the Aussie horse has achieved.
M
Marble
Guest
Not sure who to rout for here. I've been planning to bet Excelebration against Frankel for a while now, So You Think is a right spanner in the works.
So You Think is the enigma over the mile.
So You Think is the enigma over the mile.
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O'Brien has already said Excelebration and not So You Think will take on Frankel.
He's left in So You Think, but has confirmed he is highly unlikely to take part.
Windsor Palace may also take part as a pacemaker.
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Euronymous
Senior Jockey
Everything seems right for him. But going against Frankel seems somehow foolhardy.
M
Marble
Guest
I'm definately with Excelebration at the odds then if SYT doesn't go. Not because I think he's a better horse than Frankel, but I'm a believer in all good (or in this case great) things coming to an end, and there's be no better horse to get one on Frankel than the O Brien horse. That said, no surprise if Frankel were to prevail I wouldn't begrudge him that, so I'll probably just have excelbration in a win lucky 15 on the day or something like that. Could see him going off around 5/2 with the form of the stable.
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Always thought SYT needs shorter rather than further, and AO'B seemed to be leaning that way toward end of last season.
Coolmore make some strange decisions, but I fail to see any mileage in Excelebration finishing runner-up again, or in SYT garnering another weak 10f gp1?
I think Frankel will win, but if he is beaten this season it'll be at a mile. He's thirsting to be stepped up to 10 furlongs.
EC1
On a break
a 47 seconds [good ground 4f] in the guineas wouldn't convince me he isn't a miler Steve..he has more pace than any other horse i've seen at a mile..what will beat him at a mile?
Not according to HRAC, if a recent interview is to believed.
A horse with his speed looks likely to be more vulnerable over middle distances, and while nobody knows whether he stays or not, connections will probably be very circumspect about his early 10f targets.
He's a 10 furlong horse alright. Cecil knows it and I know it. Can't wait for him to finally show it.
I can understand those who can't believe he will be even better than he already is for stepping up. It seems unlikely. I believe it will also be true.
I can understand those who can't believe he will be even better than he already is for stepping up. It seems unlikely. I believe it will also be true.
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uncle goober
At the Start
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2005
- Messages
- 1,277
Kasbah Bliss Mighty Man, Diamond pigging Harry, Kara bloody bak, Grand Crus Grand Crus, Grand Crus, Dy-naste, Restless bleeding Harry, Oscar chuffing Whisky ...
Really? Someone somewhere has made cases for this lot being value to beat Big Buck's. Why? so they can look half clever if it comes off. In fact if you get something right once every three or four years, thats less than half clever.
I see no logical reason to opposing Frankel, least of all with a horse he has beaten repeatedly. There is no value in even thinking about it. Time is money.
Really? Someone somewhere has made cases for this lot being value to beat Big Buck's. Why? so they can look half clever if it comes off. In fact if you get something right once every three or four years, thats less than half clever.
I see no logical reason to opposing Frankel, least of all with a horse he has beaten repeatedly. There is no value in even thinking about it. Time is money.
M
Marble
Guest
Sorry Uncle, but there is good reason to think Excelebration will be a good match for Frankel.
They are both 4 year olds now for a start, one will improve from 3 to 4 more than the other one. Look at how Excelebration improved from 2 to 3, then think what improvement he could find from 3 to 4, and then ask yourself if Frankel is the mortage job you make him out to be.
You might be right with what you say on Big Bucks, but you make a chonic mistake on comparing apples and oranges. This is a totally different scenario.
They are both 4 year olds now for a start, one will improve from 3 to 4 more than the other one. Look at how Excelebration improved from 2 to 3, then think what improvement he could find from 3 to 4, and then ask yourself if Frankel is the mortage job you make him out to be.
You might be right with what you say on Big Bucks, but you make a chonic mistake on comparing apples and oranges. This is a totally different scenario.
Zenyatta
At the Start
- Joined
- Nov 4, 2011
- Messages
- 587
The problem is that Excelebration has to improve enough to be considered one of the best horse of all time to even challenge Frankel assuming that Frankel himself remains static. I can't see that happening so the only way he gets beaten is through fitness or lack of it. I thought he looked quite big when he worked at the Guineas meeting so that would be my only small concern. That said, I can't imagine Sir Henry will be risking his unbeaten record and I would be mightily surprised if he does get beaten.
Yup Frankel's beaten Excelebration more times than Big Bucks has beaten most of his challengers!!! They're not so daft as to keep coming back but I admire O'Brien and Coolmores "never shirk a challenge" attitude. Imagine what Sea the Stars season would have been like without them...... They fired every bullet they had...
EC1
On a break
the sire stats may help in seeing what improvement there is with E..but generally horses improve vastly between 2 & 3 and massively less beween 3 & 4
M
Marble
Guest
EC1, yes please do do an anaylsis of improvement from 3 to 4 and let us now how you get on. Generalisations are not good enough in the case.
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M
Marble
Guest
Does he? Has Frankel done enough to be considered on of the best horses of all time yet? Do you not think that is why he is being kept in training, to prove that?
After all, all he did at three was beat Excelebration a few times...