Lone Working in betting shops

Grasshopper said:
Good little discussion. Reflects well on the contributors.

Let me help change that. :D

This is in part a candidate for a Lounge thread; as the subject-matter is inextricably linked with social aspects.

Dealing with those first, I'm in the "they'll **** it away on something else" camp. People stoking FOBTs on a regular basis are generally addictive personalities, and spunking their money on FOBT's is - in a way - better than them spunking it on, say, Heroin, a membership at Ripon, or something else even more damaging.

Nobody begrudges the underclass their full-bloodied Sky packages, or their i-phones; principally (imho) because those higher in the pecking order appreciate they could doubtless do with some light-relief from their dreary lives.

Just because you're skint, shouldn't preclude from being allowed some lark-about cash (again, imho) and if your chosen fix is the illusion of beating-the-system/free-money, then that's fine by me.

In my view, they're on the same branch of the tree as your average punter, in terms of their 'addiction'. They're just often potless - but I don't view that as a reason to get all preachy about what they spend their pittance on. What next? Stop them smoking and getting tatts? Why, that would be verging on fascism. :ninja:

These people don't need saved.

Moving onto the BHA, I think Charlie Brooker summed it up best: "Wanking for pennies".
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yes but he big picture is like saying oh well drug dealers should not be condemned for supplying highly addictive drugs which end up wreaking havoc on society as a whole, from ruined lives to theft to time in prison and thinking these people with addictive personality disorders would of just chose self destruction from some other addiction, that is effectively condoning drug dealers. In the same way these fatcats at the top who designed these destructive machines and knowing full well the havoc they would cause also should not be allowed profit from other people,s misery, end of the day they are the real evil doers in the whole scenario and they create the addicts and the consequent problems which ensew.

I can remember a time when they just had fruit machines and the most you could lose in half hour was maybe 30 pound, but in the same 30 minutes on these you can lose well over a grand. I think what people are getting at is the profit and jobs that are created from these machines do not outweigh the destruction it can cause in many lives all over the country.
 
handsofstone said:
yes but he big picture is like saying oh well drug dealers should not be condemned for supplying highly addictive drugs which end up wreaking havoc on society as a whole, from ruined lives to theft to time in prison and thinking these people with addictive personality disorders would of just chose self destruction from some other addiction, that is effectively condoning drug dealers.
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FOBT's are legal.
 
Unless youre Fred West or Peter Sutcliffe, an addictive personality does not make you a scumbag or open house to be abused as seems to be suggested here.

I think its a bit like being gay actually, something you're born into.:)
 
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SlimChance said:
But it will be the end of the betting office.
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Why, then, has Paddypower plc doubled their estate of UK betting offices in the last two years?
Not arguing with ya, mate, just asking.

The two most obvious explanations would be ( ie, if they do agree with your analysis)
1) Either they see it as most unlikely that FOBT's will ever be banned by legislation in shops, or, conversely,
2) FOBT's will possibly be banned but it will still be prudent for the company to operate shops on the High Street.

Over to you. :)
 
I see two issues here:

1) FOBTs good or bad?

2) Should the BHA be getting involved?

Regarding (1), the evidence suggests these machines are the crack cocaine of gambling for certain people. And Grassy, this includes not just your typical betting shop clientele but plenty of others who would be unlikely to get involved in other forms of gambling. The experience from NSW is that women are very susceptible to 'the pokeys', and that was the experience in Dublin too in the 1980s before these machines were banned.

As for (2), there's no argument.
 
icebreaker said:
Why, then, has Paddypower plc doubled their estate of UK betting offices in the last two years?
Not arguing with ya, mate, just asking.

The two most obvious explanations would be ( ie, if they do agree with your analysis)
1) Either they see it as most unlikely that FOBT's will ever be banned by legislation in shops, or, conversely,
2) FOBT's will possibly be banned but it will still be prudent for the company to operate shops on the High Street.

Over to you. :)
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I will be shocked if they're banned right or wrong.
 
Grey said:
I see two issues here:

1) FOBTs good or bad?

2) Should the BHA be getting involved?

Regarding (1), the evidence suggests these machines are the crack cocaine of gambling for certain people. And Grassy, this includes not just your typical betting shop clientele but plenty of others who would be unlikely to get involved in other forms of gambling. The experience from NSW is that women are very susceptible to 'the pokeys', and that was the experience in Dublin too in the 1980s before these machines were banned.

As for (2), there's no argument.
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1) You want to see the women queuing for the 49's draw with €50-60 worth of bets in the poorer parts of Cork, it would shock you.

2) So FOBT's are bad unless racing is benefiting from it. Is this sort of argument that winds me up from the 'do gooders' tweeting on the subject.

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Re (2), I'm saying the BHA have no business getting involved on the side of the bookmakers to defend FOBTs. I thought that would be obvious.
 
Grey said:
Re (2), I'm saying the BHA have no business getting involved on the side of the bookmakers to defend FOBTs. I thought that would be obvious.
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It was but I couldn't help going off on one anyway.
 
Minister gives gambling industry until March 2014 to provide supporting evidence for FOBT and says she will act if data is against them
 
The banks are essentially FOBTs that every 10-15 years payout a 100 billion to one jackpot that the governent bails out but hey FOBTs are an easy target. Who's going to fund racing if this happens?

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SlimChance said:
The banks are essentially FOBTs that every 10-15 years payout a 100 billion to one jackpot that the governent bails out but hey FOBTs are an easy target. Who's going to fund racing if this happens?

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Self riteous politicans certainly dont give a monkeys as long as they are seen to be politically correct
 
There are no FOBTs in Ireland. How many problem gamblers per 1000 in the UK compared to Ireland?
 
SlimChance said:
Who's going to fund racing if this happens?
.
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Irish racing does seem to get along passably without FOBT's in offices, with decent levels of prizemoney comparable to the UK at gaff mid-week meetings.

I'm with the view expressed by others on here; the BHA needs to disassociate itself pronto from the pro-FOBT lobbyists if it is to retain respectability.
Because there is a strong moral issue at play here; funding for racing is tainted money if it is procured on the back of communal misery and exploitation. No long-term good will come from affiliation with it.
 
Colin Phillips said:
http://gambling911.com/gambling-new...r-murdered-ladbrokes-manager-play-011414.html
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Thanks. It's hard to read that and not think ban the ******* things but as someone who has worked for Ladbrokes I can vouch that they couldn't give a **** about their staff.

Two shops in Tallaght are close by. Two years ago one was burnt down with the shop staff locked in unable to find the key to get out and the other had the protective screen smashed in by someone trying to rob the place. They are such easy targets for robberies.
 
Colin, that was a tragic story but could not but grimace further with the advert inserted within the article about '1000 free spins.'

Feeling for his friends and family - MR2
 
Just about the stance I would expect from a paraclete of the corporate bookmaking industry like Millington. (I'll grant him this: he is acutely aware that his publication is substantially dependent on advertising revenue from that industry, and he will not jeopardise that particular income stream with any negative comment on FOBT's).

Quote:
" Instead, betting shops would face closure in significant numbers, turnover on racing would slump and the levy would sink, quite possibly without trace".
I ask it again; how come we have not seen mass closures of offices or the abandonment of the Irish market where FOBT's are banned by the major bookmaking chains?
 
Icebreaker. It's a pretty rhetorical question you're asking. Shops are opening fast in the UK because of FOBTs but the Irish market is declining. Powers bought out some Betpack shops recently. Independents can't compete with Powers and Boyles. Even Ladbrokes' shops are a joke where they don't have a Powers shop next door to compete with in terms of scaling back offers to the death of these outlets. Retail in Ireland is dead, trust me.

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