Ah, Jon, perhaps we could persuade Nicky to allow topical debate between the races tomorrow. I intend to be in full winter regalia as the forecast looks horrendous 
On the Rover story, a lot of Tory-inclined are jumping up and down on various forums saying this will win them the election. Well, we'll see - very early days and far from certain what has happened and what will happen. I think, however, Caroline Spelman, the Shadow DTI Minister, had previously supported Hewitt's line on this so possibly much less political capital than many might hope.
As I understand, the Government will provide a bridging loan if Rover can do a deal with its Chinese partner. It's fair to ask whether Government money should be propping up Rover - I'm sure the Tories wouldn't have helped.
On the Rover story, a lot of Tory-inclined are jumping up and down on various forums saying this will win them the election. Well, we'll see - very early days and far from certain what has happened and what will happen. I think, however, Caroline Spelman, the Shadow DTI Minister, had previously supported Hewitt's line on this so possibly much less political capital than many might hope.
As I understand, the Government will provide a bridging loan if Rover can do a deal with its Chinese partner. It's fair to ask whether Government money should be propping up Rover - I'm sure the Tories wouldn't have helped.
A
Ardross
Guest
Exactly the hypocrites
Yes, stodge, wrap up warm, winter racing's back! :lol: The position of the Shanghai company didn't look too bright, from the shots of it and the brief analysis on the news tonight. Vast lots of unsold cars (it looks like you can have any colour you want, as long as it's black or dark blue) looking dusty, and the commentator saying that as long as they've got a backlog of half-a-million to sell, they're probably only likely to want to cherry-pick, if pick at all. So it's not likely that the Govt. will even be able to offer the loan, given that they feel it would be worth it.
It's a commercial business, and if it can't compete, why should it be propped up as if it's a national entity? It looks like it's headed to join all those long-lost marques: Morris, Rootes, Austin...
It's a commercial business, and if it can't compete, why should it be propped up as if it's a national entity? It looks like it's headed to join all those long-lost marques: Morris, Rootes, Austin...
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Kathy
Guest
Certainly will never be dreaming about you Ardross - not unless it is a nightmare!
archie
Senior Jockey
Didn't this government bring in something to protect pension funds of failing businesses? I'm not exactly sure what more anyone could reasonably expect them to have done. Certainly, an open ended guarantee would, rightly, have been politically more damaging.
As others have said, there's a long history of failing manufacturing businesses being allowed to go under. The number of jobs affected at Rover is 6000 and I'm sure those involved have our sympathy. The government is rightly seeking to reduce the knock-on effect on Rover's suppliers who, it seems from interviews today, have been aware of the situation for some time and been making other plans.
As others have said, there's a long history of failing manufacturing businesses being allowed to go under. The number of jobs affected at Rover is 6000 and I'm sure those involved have our sympathy. The government is rightly seeking to reduce the knock-on effect on Rover's suppliers who, it seems from interviews today, have been aware of the situation for some time and been making other plans.
I think that the damage that Gordon Brown has done to company pensions is probably partly responsible for this, but presumably those put out of work will get the tax credits on which he has spent the money nicked from the pension funds.
Here's a fairly brief summary of the history of Rover, a sorry tale:
http://www.answers.com/topic/british-leyla...tor-corporation
Here's a fairly brief summary of the history of Rover, a sorry tale:
http://www.answers.com/topic/british-leyla...tor-corporation
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Kathy
Guest
Terry, I think you are right. The pensions are almost certainly part of the problem. I am sure more details will be revealed in the lead up to the election.
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Kathy
Guest
Terry, if the conservatives can't hammer Labour on this one they don't deserve to win and then we have the added bonus of people like Ardross crowing on for another 5 years. :nerd:
The election is going to be a real gory struggle anyway. I can't stand Howard but this lot are starting to alienate so much that i could still see me voting Conservative. I've got some time for Blair but the rest of them piss me off no end these days.
I think that the problem for the Tories is that Blair remains the most convincing leader in the eyes of marginal voters.
I don't see Rover as an election winning issue as everyone knows that they make shite cars, but they could certainly stick the boot in over the pension business.
I think that the problem for the Tories is that Blair remains the most convincing leader in the eyes of marginal voters.
I don't see Rover as an election winning issue as everyone knows that they make shite cars, but they could certainly stick the boot in over the pension business.
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
And therein lies the problem.The electorate will eventually be so stupid,not too mention young as to not realise how mind numbingley bad,crass and plain evil the tories are and vote the nonces in again.....hopefully i`ll be rich enough so i can bugger off abroad when this happens.
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Kathy
Guest
People need to be made aware about the pension scams Terry, and I bet you know more about this than many. This is where the Conservatives could make some ground if they can jump on this now. I had some respect for Tony in the early days, but now, I would rather have (almost) ANY party in charge than his.
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Ardross
Guest
archie yes the Pensions Protection Fund came into force on Tuesday I think .
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Kathy
Guest
Well, theres a first for everything I suppose.
simmo
Senior Jockey
Keep it up Jesters.
Why should the government prop up a private company? And more importantly why should the Tories be allowed to make any political gains from this? I don't recall the Tories acting too swiftly to save the profit making portion of British Steel from closure. In fact, I'd be fairly certain that they were actually lobbying BS to close Ravenscraig to cut costs (they were never going to win that seat anyway). I nearly vomited when a Tory came on the news last night crowing about this new closure. Hypocritical scumbags.
Why should the government prop up a private company? And more importantly why should the Tories be allowed to make any political gains from this? I don't recall the Tories acting too swiftly to save the profit making portion of British Steel from closure. In fact, I'd be fairly certain that they were actually lobbying BS to close Ravenscraig to cut costs (they were never going to win that seat anyway). I nearly vomited when a Tory came on the news last night crowing about this new closure. Hypocritical scumbags.
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Kathy
Guest
Simmo, surely most politicians have to be hypocrites. It's what they have to do - it's just some are worse than others. Some are just plain liars, some are jokers. Which would you prefer?
simmo
Senior Jockey
They don't have to be hypocrites. They choose to be so. In answer to your question, neither. But the Tory party has absolutely no room to criticise the Labour government for not stepping in to save Rover - they wouldn't have done so, and quite rightly so. To draw a parallel with my earlier example, if the Labour party had lobbied the owners of Rover to close the plant, then they would be in the wrong. They didn't and they are not. This is precisely what the Tories did 14 years ago. I cannot and will not forget this. Or forgive it.
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Kathy
Guest
Fair comment Simmo. Parties can and do change. Look at how Labour have changed - especially in the last 2 years. The Tories are far from perfect but perhaps they deserve a chance to try and put right some of the problems Labour have caused and sort out their mess. As always, no quickfire solutions but I am willing to see if they can do any better. Surely, they can't make things any worse?
simmo
Senior Jockey
It's your vote Kathy. Nothing they have said recently makes me believe that they have changed their spots. But with regard to this specific incident, I do not believe that there is any mileage to be gained except with the "stupid" which Terry mentioned earlier in criticism of the government over it. What self-respecting Tory actually believes that the government should be propping up private sector businesses?
Great news about Rover closing down.
Having bought Rover cars on several occasions out of a misplaced sense of loyalty-cum-patriotism, I'm rewarded with unreliable/rusty dogs that cost a fortune to maintain.
Add to that the billions of pounds that have been doled out to the company by government after government over the last 20 or 30 years, mix in a little rubbish management, a lazy workforce, lack of quality control, low productivity, and you end up with many excellent reasons to kill it off.
Having bought Rover cars on several occasions out of a misplaced sense of loyalty-cum-patriotism, I'm rewarded with unreliable/rusty dogs that cost a fortune to maintain.
Add to that the billions of pounds that have been doled out to the company by government after government over the last 20 or 30 years, mix in a little rubbish management, a lazy workforce, lack of quality control, low productivity, and you end up with many excellent reasons to kill it off.
Hi Ven
Sorry to disagree, but no one should be happy about the current job loss, be it the fault of the government, management, workforce or current economic climate. I for one would not like to see anyone losing their jobs, especially honest family men, who may never find employment again.
Cheers
Trevor
Sorry to disagree, but no one should be happy about the current job loss, be it the fault of the government, management, workforce or current economic climate. I for one would not like to see anyone losing their jobs, especially honest family men, who may never find employment again.
Cheers
Trevor
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
Are you having a laugh?The last time they were in we nearly had a fcuking civil war....Thatcher was this countries worst ever prime minister.
This company has been spongeing off the taxpayer and gullible customers (like me!) for decades. Why should I have to give them yet more money - they never fulfilled their side of the bargain - like supplying me with a decent car when I parted with my hard-earned?
There are plenty of other manufacturers in the UK, like Peugot, Toyota and Nissan to name but three, who can actually produce well engineered cars (at prices only a little above continental ones!), cars that people actually want to buy.
There are plenty of other manufacturers in the UK, like Peugot, Toyota and Nissan to name but three, who can actually produce well engineered cars (at prices only a little above continental ones!), cars that people actually want to buy.
Hi Ven
So it's the car that's crap, ah I see, so if the car's crap, the workforce must be crap, nowt to do with technology or raw materials etc. Dont get me wrong I know where your'e coming from but to see someone lose their job, believe me it's not nice.
Cheers
Trevor
So it's the car that's crap, ah I see, so if the car's crap, the workforce must be crap, nowt to do with technology or raw materials etc. Dont get me wrong I know where your'e coming from but to see someone lose their job, believe me it's not nice.
Cheers
Trevor