Murtagh at Ballydoyle

C

Cantoris

At the Start
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There seems to be a lot of talk about Murtagh's time at Ballydoyle running out. Personally, I don't know why unless he's struggling with his weight. I think he's doing very well bar the odd hiccup every now and again but nothing Kinane or any of the top jocks don't have.

If you were to beleive the rumours, Moore turned down the job and Smullen is next up. I can't have Smullen at the top level. Like Berry, a super jock up to Group level but then it's hit and miss.

IMO, what makes a top notch Group 1 jock is not their ability to win maidens, or handicaps at gaff tracks, but to use their brain and skill in the heat of the moment where split second decisions are the winning and losing of Group 1s where there can be very little in it. I believe Walter Swinburn was the best group 1 jock I have seen (Lester in his prime a bit too early for me), followed by Kinane, but you couldn't trust Swinburn to stay out of trouble in a walkover at Leicester!!

Anyone got any views on the situation at Ballydoyle they'd like to share?
 
I'd be surprised but anything is possible. The foul ups under Murtagh have been few, though I'd imagine that if he was to be replaced Moore would be the choice to replace him.
 
Ryan Moore would never take the job at Ballydoyle. The Pat Smullen talk is Betfair forum rubbish. If anything it should be Murtagh that should be pissed off getting jocked off for Joesph. It makes a mockery of being the retained jockey.
 
Yeah Moore looks the obvious, and only choice really. When Kinane left they rushed in to get Spencer which was a mistake (too inexperienced although had the talent) and Murtagh was a return to the old Ballydoyle formula....older, established rider like Kinane, Piggott, Asmussen, Reid. The concern with Moore is that he's got a few more years of experience to gain to fit with the formula, not withstanding he's a top class jock. But when the pressure is really on you need to be sure your jock won't melt.

If Moore did take the job, the musical chairs would be interesting. Where would Murtagh go? Who would take the job with Stoute?

Also, it's interesting to note that O'Donoghue appears to be the choice for European rides after Murtagh but Heffernan on home soil. Again, a departure I don't understand. Is it simply a case of spreading around the second rides so they all stick around, or is Heffernan too important at home as a work rider to have abroad every second week?
 
Gearoid said:
If anything it should be Murtagh that should be pissed off getting jocked off for Joesph. It makes a mockery of being the retained jockey.
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I doubt he's worried. Keeps the boss happy if Joseph wins the apprentice title and he'll retire, surely. Anyway, he's only missing out on maidens and handicaps. If APO'B turned around and told him Joseph was riding Lillie Langtry, RVW and F&G, then there'd be a problem.
 
I doubt Moore would move - he already has a top job at Stoute's and it would mean his wife and young family moving to Ireland also.

If they did go for Moore they'd have a top class jockey - one of the best in the World and providing it went to play he'd be there for 12-15 years rather than the current situation of chopping and changing every 5 or 6 years.
 
My opinion is that Ryan Moore is too good for Ballydoyle and the job would never be a step up for him.
 
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Murtagh has done well at Ballydoyle, but might be feeling a bit peeved at getting jocked off on a couple of favourites. Where else would he go?

Hopefully he will stay at Ballydoyle for next year. After that, well... lets's see what 2011 will bring. Could they go hunting for William Buick ( a very good choice imo - and one that could go on for a long time if he were to be happy in Ireland)) or go back to Jamie (probably not - but who knows?)?

Ryan Moore is a non-starter - he would not move to Ireland and he's got a great job now.
 
Nefertiti said:
or go back to Jamie
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That would be interesting and he's a more polished rider now than he was then. I'd like to see Richard Hughes in the role but then he's got the perfect job at the moment and there doesn't seem to be any pressure on him there.
 
William Buick? Ryan Moore? We are in fantasy land here. Jamie Spencer or Kieran Fallon would be top of my betting if Murtagh and Ballydoyle split.
 
Story has been doing the rounds now for a while now. I know Heffernan this year is struggling with his weight and has a bit of arthritis to contend with as well. Smullen is a definite non runner if true - hard to see Fallon or Spencer back either.
 
If the thought is there of nicking Buick off Gosden, then why not Queally off Cecil? Neither are married with families, both are now on the upgrade. Surprising, isn't it, how there's really a dearth of Group 1 jockeys when you're thinking of replacements which aren't the obvious two or three. I wouldn't think Spencer would want to be divorced from his children by constant distance, though.
 
Has any jockey in the last 10 years been in the Ballydoyle job at their peak? A resounding no. Ryan Moore, William Buick and Tom Queally would be stepping down going to Ballydoyle. They offer quality but riding in Ireland closes doors rather than opening them1 I would price up Ryan Moore 1/6 to ride more classic winners than Ballydoyles retained jockey for the next 5 seasons.
 
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How about Declan McDonogh??? His career hasnt really kicked on from a couple of years ago and he is one that could do with a new challenge. He isnt going anywhere where he is. I certainly believe he is talented enough to do any job justice.
 
Murtagh hasn't been spectacular this year.They will get whoever they want for the job-it's still the biggest job in European racing.Smullen won't get the job,Queally would be the obvious choice but what price they go Stateside.
 
Gearoid said:
Has any jockey in the last 10 years been in the Ballydoyle job at their peak? A resounding no.
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If those jocks were on the downgrade, how come they haven't made a lot more mistakes? Kinane made a few notable errors near the end of his term but when it comes to it, he was a class act, even last year. Murtagh hasn't made too many mistakes. Not sure about Fallon, he's either brilliant or makes a balls of it.

The Ballydoyle job, by its very commercial focus, is an intense position to be in and Spencer couldn't handle the pressure. In an interview at Leopardstown recently, Magnier was asked if he enjoyed his horse winning a group 1 and he replied "the other owners do, but I don't". I doubt Abdullah or the Aga hold the same view and while the objective of their breeding operations are to pay for themselves, if they don't, it doesn't matter as they are in it for the pleasure, which as owner breeders must be immense. So it helps to have a jockey with plenty of experience, who has proven his worth beyond any doubt. That's why it suits a jock in his thirties.
 
Galileo said:
What is bigger?
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Depends on your situation. If you are telling me riding for Ballydoyle is the biggest job in European racing you are derranged. Ryan Moore is a level above all his peers and would not even consider the job. He will ride more classic winners in no retained job in the nest 5/10/20 years than the Ballydoye No.1 so please dont tell me it is the top job because it's not.

I'll say it once more more - Ryan Moore is too good for Ballydoyle.
 
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Most obvious US jockey for me would be Julien Leparoux - he's French and one of the top turf riders in North America (former Champion Apprentice too and Champion US rider by wins the same year), might he look for a return to Europe?

Only 27 and already has a stack of Grade 1 wins to his name (6 BC races, Santa Anita Handicap, Oaklawn Handicap, Flower Bowl Invitational, Diana Handicap, Secretariat Stakes etc).
 
Irish Stamp said:
Most obvious US jockey for me would be Julien Leparoux - he's French and one of the top turf riders in North America (former Champion Apprentice too and Champion US rider by wins the same year), might he look for a return to Europe?

Only 27 and already has a stack of Grade 1 wins to his name (6 BC races, Santa Anita Handicap, Oaklawn Handicap, Flower Bowl Invitational, Diana Handicap, Secretariat Stakes etc).
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What would attract him to Ballydoyle? Nothing. He will make far more money in the US. I am shocked at the level other forum members put on the Ballydoyle job when both Spencer and Kinane enhanced their career by leaving. Stop buying into the hype please. Last Ballydoyle English Classic winner was who? I can't remember either...
 
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