Murtagh at Ballydoyle

Gearoid said:
Ryan Moore is a level above all his peers and would not even consider the job.
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Did he tell ya that over a pint on Sunday or are you a psychic?

He has family and will obviously consider that first and foremost. Even if they want to move, he has to decide is it's what he wants. And even Europe's top job (whether it is riding for Godolphin, Aga Khan, Stoute etc etc) might not be attractive enough to take him away from his current position. The devil you know is better than the devil you don't......it's why I've only moved jobs once!
 
Gearoid said:
I am shocked at the level other forum members put on the Ballydoyle job when both Spencer and Kinane enhanced their career by leaving.
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spencer should never have been given the job, he made a balls of it while he was there and then went to get himself some experience. Of course he was going to be better after he left, he was pretty shocking when he was there. Some would say Coolmore believed his hype!! And you've completely lost me on Kinane so you might explain that one to me.
 
Gearoid said:
What would attract him to Ballydoyle? Nothing. He will make far more money in the US. I am shocked at the level other forum members put on the Ballydoyle job when both Spencer and Kinane enhanced their career by leaving. Stop buying into the hype please. Last Ballydoyle English Classic winner was who? I can't remember either...
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He'd be the number one if they wanted someone from the US IMO - whether he'd come or they'd have to chuck a $5m retainer his way to make it worthwhile is another matter entirely.
 
Cantoris said:
Did he tell ya that over a pint on Sunday or are you a psychic?

He has family and will obviously consider that first and foremost. Even if they want to move, he has to decide is it's what he wants. And even Europe's top job (whether it is riding for Godolphin, Aga Khan, Stoute etc etc) might not be attractive enough to take him away from his current position. The devil you know is better than the devil you don't......it's why I've only moved jobs once!
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I'm not sure what you are getting at. My point is Ryan Moore is the top jockey of our era and a job invoving riding 2yo around Ballinrobe is a miilion to one for him. Why is my point so hard to understand?
 
Cantoris said:
spencer should never have been given the job, he made a balls of it while he was there and then went to get himself some experience. Of course he was going to be better after he left, he was pretty shocking when he was there. Some would say Coolmore believed his hype!! And you've completely lost me on Kinane so you might explain that one to me.
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Kinane got a raw deal being replaced by Spencer and rode him silly in the following seasons. Ballydoyle made a big mistake getting rid of him and Kinane via Sea The Stars had the last laugh. No one can argue with that.
 
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Gearoid said:
I'm not sure what you are getting at. My point is Ryan Moore is the top jockey of our era and a job invoving riding 2yo around Ballinrobe is a miilion to one for him. Why is my point so hard to understand?
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Moore is happier riding around Brighton.
 
Gearoid said:
I'm not sure what you are getting at. My point is Ryan Moore is the top jockey of our era and a job invoving riding 2yo around Ballinrobe is a miilion to one for him. Why is my point so hard to understand?
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You said "he would not even consider the job". How do you know what he's done? He could have sat down with the missus and said "look, this is a good opportunity for me...what you think?", followed by "No" from herself. But then again, I don't know how he considered it as it hasn't been disclosed if he's been approached, his view on it and ultimately whether he would accept it or not.

And Kinane was quite happy to let Fran Berry head off to Ballinrobe. Murtagh is quite happy to let others head off to Tramore. And if I recall, Oxx refused to send horses to Tramore or to allow Murtagh to ride there. Ballinrobe 2yo maidens have nothing to do with it. For god sake, he has to ride around Bath and Brighton!! Hardly much of a difference to Ballinrobe. But if he told them he didn't want to ride there, it wouldn't be a deal breaker for them.

I think most of those that have commented here would view the Ballydoyle job as a good one. Whether someone wants it or not is open to their own judgement. The Taoiseach's job is a good one to have, but personally I'd prefer to stick my head in a toilet than do that job. But others would love to do it......namely Enda!! So not sure why you feel it's so important to tell people they are stupid thinking it's a top job.
 
And rightly so. He is still 1/6 to ride more classic winners than the "top job in Europe" over any period in the next 20 years.
 
Gearoid said:
Kinane got a raw deal being replaced by Spencer and rode him silly in the following seasons. Ballydoyle made a big mistake getting rid of him and Kinane via Sea The Stars had the last laugh. No one can argue with that.
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I disagree. There were plenty who were writing off Kinane during much of his time at Oxx. As a fan of his, I was delighted that Sea The Stars came along and provided a fitting finale to his career, but noone can say that he, as a jockey, was at his peak during his time with Oxx.
 
Cantoris said:
You said "he would not even consider the job". How do you know what he's done? He could have sat down with the missus and said "look, this is a good opportunity for me...what you think?", followed by "No" from herself. But then again, I don't know how he considered it as it hasn't been disclosed if he's been approached, his view on it and ultimately whether he would accept it or not..
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Because it is a Betfair forum rumour that I am entitled to think is ridiculous.
 
Gearoid said:
Depends on your situation. If you are telling me riding for Ballydoyle is the biggest job in European racing you are derranged. Ryan Moore is a level above all his peers and would not even consider the job. He will ride more classic winners in no retained job in the nest 5/10/20 years than the Ballydoye No.1 so please dont tell me it is the top job because it's not.

I'll say it once more more - Ryan Moore is too good for Ballydoyle.
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You never answered me - what is a bigger "job" to have in European racing? Because Moore turns this down does not mean he has a bigger job but that the move to Ireland does not suit.
 
Narcotic Nora said:
I disagree. There were plenty who were writing off Kinane during much of his time at Oxx. As a fan of his, I was delighted that Sea The Stars came along and provided a fitting finale to his career, but noone can say that he, as a jockey, was at his peak during his time with Oxx.
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He was riding superbly for Oxx before Sea The Stars came along.
 
Gearoid said:
Kinane got a raw deal being replaced by Spencer and rode him silly in the following seasons. Ballydoyle made a big mistake getting rid of him and Kinane via Sea The Stars had the last laugh. No one can argue with that.
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You said Kinane enhanced his career when he left, yet got a raw deal in being replaced. So in your eyes he must have been at the top of his game for Ballydoyle, so not sure how you can enhance that. STS was one horse in a period when Kinane was his usual good self in the top races but had lost all interest in other racing and the last year or two was painful to watch in his day to day riding. So not sure how he enhnaced his career when he left Ballydoyle. He simply got the chance to ride STS.
 
Galileo said:
You never answered me - what is a bigger "job" to have in European racing? Because Moore turns this down does not mean he has a bigger job but that the move to Ireland does not suit.
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Freelance is the biggest job in racing with his talent.
 
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Cantoris said:
You said Kinane enhanced his career when he left, yet got a raw deal in being replaced. So in your eyes he must have been at the top of his game for Ballydoyle, so not sure how you can enhance that. STS was one horse in a period when Kinane was his usual good self in the top races but had lost all interest in other racing and the last year or two was painful to watch in his day to day riding. So not sure how he enhnaced his career when he left Ballydoyle. He simply got the chance to ride STS.
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That is a matter of opinion.
 
The only way I could see Moore going for it would be if he had weight problems that meant he would have a significantly shortened career and it was a massive pay increase. Otherwise no chance.

Murtagh is still the best jockey in Ireland by some way - consider his ride on Lillie Langtry in the Matron - rode the pants off the rest of them especially Berry.

Now Sheikh M's protege Ajtebi has been so exposed as a second rate rider - it won't be Dettori !!!
 
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Gearoid said:
He was riding superbly for Oxx before Sea The Stars came along.
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Posts are beginning to cross a bit and had written the last one before I saw this. I think Kinane was always superb in Group 1s, at any time in his career even the end. I say this as a life long fan of his, he was not up to it on an every day basis during the years with Oxx...unfortunately.
 
Galileo said:
That is fine - but you still have not told me how describing Ballydoyle as the "biggest job" in European racing is a load of bollix!
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If it was Ryan Moore or William Buick or Tom Queally would jump at it. How many Englsish classics have they won in the last 5 seasons again?
 
Cantoris said:
The Taoiseach's job is a good one to have, but personally I'd prefer to stick my head in a toilet than do that job.
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Agreed ~ the type of job that would drive a man to drink if you ask me.

Would Soumillon come into the equation at all? I don't see too many solid options if they get rid of Murtagh to be honest.
 
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Cantoris said:
Posts are beginning to cross a bit and had written the last one before I saw this. I think Kinane was always superb in Group 1s, at any time in his career even the end. I say this as a life long fan of his, he was not up to it on an every day basis during the years with Oxx...unfortunately.
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OK that is fair but he was still capable of a top class ride bar Sea The Stars. I just thought his exodus from Ballydoyle was unfair especially since the two jockeys who preceded him made far more mistakes.
 
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