Nicholls v Mullins

Fair enough. I didn't notice. Pretty sure I've said that its been a real boost to the circuit. I go NH racing at the major southern courses 30 odd times a year and there have been times n the past when it has seemingly too often been a NH/pn head to head
 
This WPM v PN is really a bit of a laugh. It's good for racing bringing it a bit of attention but comparing PN to WPM is like comparing Tyson to Ali.

Over the last 5 years WPM has trained an average of 200 winners a season, his total being 1022 as of today

He has won £18,948,052.46 for his owners. £1,698,576.88 came off the flat

Over the jumps he averaged £19,646.33 per win (overall £18,540.17)

Over the last 5 years PN has trained an average of 130 winners a season, his total being 650 as of today

He has won £ 13,685,154.09 for his owners £8711.98 from the flat

Over the jumps he has averaged £15,031.40 and (overall £15,031.40)



So over the last 5 years WPM has trained on average 70 winners a year more than PN

His Average winnings are also higher

Little doubt that in recent years the true champion of NH racing as we know it is WPM


WPM is also fairly new to the big time but even if you go back to 2004 WPPM has trained more winner 1800 to 1700 approx. and is only about 3 million behind in prize money despite those Denam Big Bucks kauto years.

Both are brilliant but WPM for me is the true Champion and we can pretend PN is but the Irish will say "you're having a laugh" and who can blame them.
 
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archie said:
Not you Clive. Maybe 'having a go' was a bit strong but some fairly partisan comments earlier in the thread.
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and how partisan is the Betbright cup ?. It's a sport so there should be plenty of scope for partisan following both sides of the water, especially when you hear TFF pundits and the like saying how much Willie wants to "bring it back to Ireland".

That said, my comments were actually nothing to do with the nationality or origin of either trainer and I'd have felt just as much support for Mullins 6 or 7 years back if Nicholls - when he had a fine string of G1 performers - had attempted in earnest to have won both the GB and Ireland trainers title as he'd alluded to during the Clonmel Oil meeting.

It makes absolutely no sense to me to have the trainer and jockey's titles differently. Can you imagine if the jockey's title followed the same pattern ?. Ruby could sit out October until March, boot home a few winners at Cheltenham & Aintree and snatch the trophy from a journeyman jock who'd ridden 200 winners as far a field as Perth and Folkestone.
 
I'm firmly in the Mullins camp. Nicholls doesn't deserve to win it with so few good horses. With SC on the decline he has virtually nothing high class.
 
The irony of it is that Nicholls, Henderson and Mullins go about things in roughly the same way so, for instance, describing Mullins as having success because of his expensive French imports is both unfair and untrue. Sure he buys horses over there but so do the others. He just happens to buy better horses for less money because his agents in France are top rate. As an example, a horse that I have a share in came 4th in a French bumper less than 5 lengths behind the winner. Nicholls bought the 1st and 3rd for, as I understand it, a combined price of over 400k whereas we got the 4th for 80k. Ours has been given time to fill out and we have high hopes of him for next season. The winner fell in a juvenile hurdle in November and hasn't been seen out since. The third has finished 1st and 3rd in a couple of 2k bumpers. There's no saying how they will all end up but we've paid quite a lot less to find out.
 
archie said:
describing Mullins as having success because of his expensive French imports is both unfair and untrue.
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Ricci obviously has some rampant expert picking his horses out because JP and Connell spend the dosh and have nowhere near the same success.
 
Euronymous said:
I'm firmly in the Mullins camp. Nicholls doesn't deserve to win it with so few good horses. With SC on the decline he has virtually nothing high class.
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which is a akin to saying that Leicester don't deserve to win the league without any £50m valued players
 
They have two or three high class ones though. The Algerian fella whose name escapes me has been one of the best players of the year has he not.
 
Euronymous said:
I'm firmly in the Mullins camp. Nicholls doesn't deserve to win it with so few good horses. With SC on the decline he has virtually nothing high class.
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There are those who would say it's harder to train "poor or average" horses to win "poor or average" races though, by the very fact they are "poor or average"
 
Euronymous said:
I'm firmly in the Mullins camp. Nicholls doesn't deserve to win it with so few good horses. With SC on the decline he has virtually nothing high class.
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That makes little or no sense to me. If PN has nothing classy then he's done a fantastic job winning what he has won.
 
It's interesting to compare the value of winning the Greatwood compared to the Arkle. Less than 30k difference.

On the flat you'd have a far bigger disparity between races of that quality.
 
More like 25. I agree. Who wouldn't in truth .

In theory its almost possible you could have a champion trainer with less than ten winners. 5 even?
 
tiggers1972 said:
Just seems v strange that we could have a champion trainer who has only had about 30 winners, doesn't sit right with me.
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Thats the the way it is

aidan obrien has been 4 times champion trainer on flat

if You base on winners,like jockeys championship, You can end with hanagan and de Sousa champion jockeys.
 
I would rather see the guys who train the Douvan's, Sprinter Sacre's and Kauto Stars be champion trainer, not the likes of Jonjo, as much as I love the guy, with 100 3 legged summer winners and only 30 good ones
 
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