Not looking good across the water

Never mind, for the moment the Curragh can give us this instead

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Sorry, I hadn't spotted them.

Does anyone who works or used to work in stables have an opinion about the issues at stake? Are the working conditions being described at Ballydoyle reasonable or not in this day and age?
 
I don't know what goes on there, but I do know that a 19 hour day wouldn't be hard to rack up if you go racing a fair way away - you'd start at 6, leave at 10/11 arrive at 2 ( as a guess) horse runs at 5, give it a rest after, leave to come home at 7ish, home at 10, sort the horse out - so you'd have done 6 - 10.30 without even trying... ( using that distance as an example) more if it's an evening meeting. Plus, I would want to take my horses racing regardless of if it was my day off or not - so "working" 19 days in a row would be easy to do as well.
It's just not practical for two lads to one horse, even without how confusing it would be for the animals - they often form very strong bonds with their lads. Training fees will explode as well - double the wage packet for the same amount of horses in a yard?!


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I, for one, don't think its acceptable especially the 28 days without a break bearing in mind they are getting there very early in the morning. There is still wilful abuse towards staff within the industry in the form of extended overtime. I have a friend who works for a new (upandcoming) trainer as Assistant. He ends up working every weekend and hasn't had a day off since early April. The reason? He either does the weekends when the Head Lad goes away or on his official weekends off, he is sent racing by the boss to saddle up. Can you remotely imagine this going on in any other industry?

Racing is losing quality staff (and has been for some time) and has been supplementing this by recruiting from abroad full in the knowledge that many foreign staff were not afraid of serious hard graft and were on the whole not aware of their working rights. Add in the fact that their foreign staff (many on the minimum wage allowed) were happy to be bunked up 3-4 to a room for accommodation and they are a far cheaper option.

Training fees (IMO) could be put up only if the BHA address the problem of poor prize money at the lowest tier instead of pumping ridiculous amounts in at the top. If the prize money at the bottom end is better, the trainers can put their fees up as their owners will be getting a better return for winning races rather than not even remotely breaking even despite numerous wins - and what quicker way to sour off a new owner?
 
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Completely agree. Can't see it happening and the money for the extra staff has to come from somewhere - but in that perfect world it would be this. Owners are already being priced out of the sport as it is, few could afford to subsidise it much further without any help.


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I remember Pat Keating leading one up for AP at a Cork Saturday evening meeting having come home from Royal Ascot or some other foreign trip a few years ago; the hours he puts up are phenomenal.
Another occasion he was leading one up with his left foot in a cast/support.
In an interview a few years ago he said he takes six weeks off in January/February and tours historic sights that do not have racecourses on his off time but is hands on the other 10 and half months.
Reading about the 19 hour days and 28 days straight working I always picture him.
 
The twenty eight days straight also includes riders who insist on coming in on Sunday's to ride one horse but don't work a full day, literally therefor an hour or so. Same with the trips to Dubai etc where they work back to back daysbbutbget time off when they come home again in lieu
 
Miesque said:
The twenty eight days straight also includes riders who insist on coming in on Sunday's to ride one horse but don't work a full day, literally therefor an hour or so. Same with the trips to Dubai etc where they work back to back daysbbutbget time off when they come home again in lieu
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That's what I was presuming - and if they took one racing on a day they weren't due to be working they wouldn't do a normal days work "work" - just roll in, get the horse ready, go to the races and come home. Still at work in the strictest sense, but their choice to do so and not anything like a normal day.
The rules over here these days about overtime and time off are fairly strict ( though sporadically adhered to !!) - I don't know about the Irish side obviously ( plus I can only speak from my own experience which ended 8/9 years ago and from friends and the secretaries course I did!) but it's nowhere near as black and white as the Irish turf club seem to be wanting and I genuinely think that they are going to struggle massively with suggestions like they have made.


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it's nowhere near as black and white as the Irish turf club seem to be wanting and I genuinely think that they are going to struggle massively with suggestions like they have made.
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It's not a Turf Club enquiry, trudij. It's a Labour Court hearing into the findings of an inspection by the Workplace Relations Commission. The crux of the matter is that racing stables used to be classified as agricultural establishments, which are exempted from some of the legislation concerning working hours, overtime, leave entitlements and the like, but not any more.

Since being shifted out of the agriculture category, the workplace practices at the likes of Ballydoyle are no longer compliant with labour law, and this hearing is a first test of the new situation.

The question is whether the new requirements are reasonable or not in a racing yard, where things can hardly be operated on a 9 to 5 basis, or whether the old classification as agricultural should be restored and staff can be asked to work around the clock if need be.
 
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Sorry - misunderstood a chunk of it ( it was late and I'm very tired!!) I thought they were getting involved as well.

I think it's mental. For the reasons I've stated above financially and also from the horses point of view. Unless we go to an American system where you have hot walkers, riders and grooms I don't see any way that you could possibly have any kind of "normal" hours for the job. As we've said above, a lot of the time people want to come in to ride out on their days off or they want to go racing with their horses - now technically that's classed as being at work even if, as Miesque says, they go in and ride one before going home again. It's hardly a whole days work, even on a Sunday!! There is a system in place for time off in lieu and overtime here in the UK ( as I've said before, I don't know if the Irish rules are the same) lots won't take all they are entitled to, but equally there is an element of choice in there and the industry shouldn't be held responsible for that.

It scares me somewhat that small yards and owners are going to disappear because someone somewhere has to pay for the extra staff everybody will need If this goes through. Of course working hours should be regulated so that people get proper time off ( what they choose to do with that is up to them!) but there is only so far any owners can afford to go - even your Coolmores and your JPs of the world can't be paying double to foot the bill.
I'm not even sure how much sorting the prize money at the lower end will help ( though god knows it needs doing regardless) because there are still only a few horses who will get that and it costs the same for those horses to be trained as it does the winners.






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Grey said:
It's not a Turf Club enquiry, trudij. It's a Labour Court hearing into the findings of an inspection by the Workplace Relations Commission. The crux of the matter is that racing stables used to be classified as agricultural establishments, which are exempted from some of the legislation concerning working hours, overtime, leave entitlements and the like, but not any more.
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What category has Racing been moved into, Art, if it's been moved out of agriculture?

The gist of APOBs argument seemed to be that horse-racing was in the wrong category, but he made no reference (that I picked-up on) to the new category that racing in Ireland found itself in.
 
Grasshopper said:
What category has Racing been moved into, Art, if it's been moved out of agriculture?

The gist of APOBs argument seemed to be that horse-racing was in the wrong category, but he made no reference (that I picked-up on) to the new category that racing in Ireland found itself in.
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The agricultural sector is exempt from the legislation and no doubt fishing, the security forces and emergency services are too. I doubt there are many other exceptions.

Agriculture has been defined somewhat narrowly as the production of crops and livestock for human consumption.

This short piece provides some useful context:

https://www.irishtimes.com/business...to-ballydoyle-s-labour-court-appeal-1.3167913
 
When I next hear of how difficult it is to hire or retain staff, I'll now have a better understanding of why.

I've always presumed that those in the industry work in it because they love the horses etc but really you'd be mad to stick with it for any length of time judging by what I'm reading here. Either that or those working in racing fear they couldn't get a job in any other industry.

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Credit to them also for a Novice hurdle series for horses bought at a recognised NH sale at 3 and 4 for less than 30k that are maidens at starting.( any race or p2p )
Five races, the first of which was run at Listowel Monday last.
two of the races are filly / mare only events.
Good prize money also of 20K .
 
those fookers at Listowel started the 2.40 right in the middle of the Sandown 2.35 race..............They really have to sort this shite out.........there's only one meeting in Ireland today and no need for them to be such a-holes
 
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