Not looking good across the water

I'm away at the moment and hotel net access appears not to work so left with phone only. So not about to spend 2hrs tapping out a reply Cantoris! I'd like to make a few comments though so will endeavour to do so at the weekend when I get back!
 
Is that the 'all clear' sounding?

"Shadow leader has left the upper quadrant,
threat level orange
deflector shields still at double front
mainatain vigilance"
 
Too bad you're never down thisaway, missus - all of our security at Brighton's supplied by a number of hunky firemen who double-duty at the course (and at Hove Dogs). Tall, strong, good in any crisis, love their racing... could a gal ask for more?
 
Oh sorry, I forgot. Haven't had the energy to reply yet!

Suffice to say that I still don't agree with a lot of what you're saying, Cantoris. Are you telling me that if you had £25k in your pocket, saw a horse you fell in love with, was good on paper, yet only went through the ring for £5k you wouldn't buy it? As that seems to be pretty much what you're saying, to me, with this quote in particular :

I would consider myself in the middle tier of owners who could never afford one for 50k but yet wouldn't drop to 5k or 10k
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As for going around the sales without a catalogue - doesn't happen. Anyone who goes to the sales without a cataloge and without putting in the homework beforehand is an idiot, I'm afraid! Go through the catalogue, go through the pedigrees and particulars; make a list of those you like. Then you work your way through those on your list which aren't withdrawn at the sales, looking at each one individually and thoroughly. You even go back again and look at those you are thinking of bidding on twice, or even three times - in my case, out of a list of 20 odd (which is on a good day at the sales, my lists have often only held as little as 5 or 6) I can virtually guarantee there will only be 3 or 4 I'm remotely interested in bidding upon. Sometimes they surprise you and go for pennies - after doing all that work, would you turn your nose up at one because it only went for a pittance? :confused: Likewise, would you go over the amount you pre-valued the horse at whilst bidding, just because you have the cash burning a hole in your pocket?

Having a large bank isn't the be all and end all - it's having the knowledge to pick horses out of the catalogue then having the eye to weigh one up and spot any potential defects. That still doesn't mean that the horse will make the track, or be any good on the track, but everyone is pretty much in the same boat when it comes to injuries and the likes. I for one know I'd be a lot more pissed off had I spunked £25k+ on one that was useless [and paid for its training inbetween] rather than one I'd paid less than a fifth of that amount for! It's a little bit like being one of a few in a syndicate that pay £60k for a horse that wins its bumper then gets tailed on every subsequent run before being sold for £8k, making massive losses, then winning four races for new connections.....it makes you wonder who are the biggest fools, those who bought him for £60k and sold him for £8k, or the one who 'only' paid £8k for him yet got him to win four races?!
 
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Shadow Leader said:
As for going around the sales without a catalogue - doesn't happen. Anyone who goes to the sales without a cataloge and without putting in the homework beforehand is an idiot, I'm afraid!
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In fairness to Cantoris I don't think he was suggesting that he goes around the Sales without a Catalogue and doesn't do his homework. I took it that he was saying generally speaking you can tell what a horse is going to make before it goes through the ring.

The fact that he insists on spending his 25k is intriguing though.:whistle:
 
I was under the impression that he also deferred to Colm Murphy? Which would make sense if you were paying someone. If I've read it right, the syndicate selected Colm who they identified as an up and coming trainer who they could afford, and then placed no small amount of trust in his tutored eye to pick out the horse etc In essence it doesn't sound massively dissimilar in principle to taking a mechanic along with you if you're buying a second car?

If you're a syndicate of course there must be an added attraction to do with arbitration involved, as I'd have thought it near on impossible that 8-10 people would rate the same horse as their number 1 option
 
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I doubt the syndicate members have any choice in what Cantoris and Colum buy.They just have to decide whether they want into a race horse or not.
 
My understanding is that the Brave Inca syndicate was formed by work colleagues and close friends originally, and everyone was pretty much an equal partner with equal input etc? It had very humble origins with no grandiose expectations. Now it might be that Cantoris has subsequently been able to trade on the back of Brave Inca, and fair enough, the syndicate now comes with a track record and thing shave moved on, and anyone buying in to the new horses will doubtless weigh that up, but I'm sure Cantoris says they defer to Colm, and to be honest, why wouldn't they? If you've got a trainer who you trust and pay for his input, who ultimately has greater experience than they, then they'd be stupid not to.
 
Warbler said:
My understanding is that the Brave Inca syndicate was formed by work colleagues and close friends originally, and everyone was pretty much an equal partner with equal input etc? It had very humble origins with no grandiose expectations. Now it might be that Cantoris has subsequently been able to trade on the back of Brave Inca, and fair enough, the syndicate now comes with a track record and thing shave moved on, and anyone buying in to the new horses will doubtless weigh that up, but I'm sure Cantoris says they defer to Colm, and to be honest, why wouldn't they? If you've got a trainer who you trust and pay for his input, who ultimately has greater experience than they, then they'd be stupid not to.
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Don't disagree with any of that .
 
Quick note to 'Harrison Fraser';

Recommend small advance to Cantoris to right a book chronicling the early days of Brave Inca and the lead up to Champion Hurdle success. The stories, the humble beginnings, the build up, and the ultimate victory. Working title; "yes we can". Book to be published by BHA at as close cost as possible and used as marketing tool
 
In actual fact, my syndicate members are given every opportunity to input as I put the syndicate together before buying the horse. Members are allowed to nominate stallions or lots they specifically don't like as I would never want a member to have a horse they are against. Then it is up to Colm to pick them out on the day. He looks at about 80% of horses (remember you would not have looked at Zaarito on his page - 4 mile chaser written all over him) at the sales and only knocks out ones he is dead against on pedigree. If he likes the individual he is willing to give a little on the breeding. Brave Inca and Kimberlite King don't have great pages. Funnily, Captain Bondi has a good page!! I do some homework on the siblings and stallion and if we still like one we go in and bid. Colm will have a number in his head and I have a budget. But invariably the horses he will pick out are nice and fall somewhere between 20k and 80k depending on the interest and the breeding. I am only constrained by our budget on the day, hence we didn't spend all our budget for Raise The Beat but did for Captain Bondi and Kimberlite King. We overspent for Brave Inca.....wasn't that clever!!
 
In actual fact, my syndicate members are given every opportunity to input as I put the syndicate together before buying the horse. Members are allowed to nominate stallions or lots they specifically don't like as I would never want a member to have a horse they are against
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That's unusual I think and a good idea.
 
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