Not looking good across the water

And they come along on the day and if we are thinking of bidding on one and they dislike it then we don't buy. Most of the time they are just interested in seeing what goes on at the sales and chatting with Colm about what he looks for. Trust me, Colm gets through a lot of horses very quickly.
 
That's a good way of making people feel involved, often I think people don't get the whole experience they think they're paying for including a little bit of control over what's happening to their hard earned dollars .
 
It's pretty rare for syndications to involve any members in the selection and post-racing decisions. Not so for partnerships, where the members will actually own the horses, or joint ownerships (ditto). But to allow such involvement is unusual. I suppose one could say, well, don't become a member if you don't like the horse (the usual way), but it's refreshing to see a democratic process.
 
...and that'll be why I do it myself!

Cantoris' syndicate does sound out of the ordinary in that the members have a say - having been part of such a syndicate whereby we had zero say in anything I probably wouldn't own horses in partnership again.
 
krizon said:
but it's refreshing to see a democratic process.
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The difference of course between my syndicates and most others is that I put the syndicate together first so members are really going in blind. As a result, I'd like to give them a guide dog!!
 
Brian O'Connor's latest blog irish-racing.com blog entry below. Fair play to him - certainly doesn't pull any punches!

“As Chief Executive of Horse Racing Ireland, I am delighted to announce HRI’s Annual Report for 2020. It has been a year of huge increases in key indicator areas such as attendances, revenue and prizemoney. Irish racing’s finances have never been in a more healthy state. The following is a brief summation of how we have got here.
(1) Crowds going through the gates of Ireland’s racecourses have never been greater. Overall figures dwarf those of twenty years ago. Of course the vast majority have no interest in racing but are instead entering our track casinos – or ‘racinos’ – in order to play the slots and the multitudinous other ways to gamble in our ultra-modern hotel and leisure complexes.
The result is that most of our customers now have their backs to the action on the racecourse. But the revenue stream is massive enough to more than justify the government decision to grant casino licences to HRI in return for an end to state subsidies which had proven an electoral disaster for our political allies.
(2) The move to reducing Ireland’s racecourse population to just ten tracks has been hugely beneficial despite any outcry there may have been when we announced our decision ten years ago. The reduction has been more gradual than ideal but vitally we are now able to concentrate our resources.
(3) Central to that has been the move to all-weather racing. All eight of our flat tracks are exclusively polytrack, allowing low-cost usage all year round and providing a uniformity of surface that allows our horses compete with the best from all around the world where all-weather is now the primary surface as well.
(4) Ireland’s position as the last major bastion of National Hunt racing is regrettably coming under more and more pressure with just two tracks still operable. Public outcry at the fatality levels over jumps that began in Australia over a decade ago is now firmly rooted in this country too. Despite extensive advertising campaigns to counter false-information, jump racing continues to face an uphill battle.
(5) Initial attempts to introduce discussions on the possibilities of a Tote monopoly were rebuffed with such ferocity by the bookmaking lobby that they have been shelved indefinitely. Legislatively there are too many obstacles to emulate the off-course bookmaking model that works so well in Australia. However enough political will has been exerted to substantially increase payments from the major chains and internet firms in return for leaving them more or less alone.
(6) One result of more bookmaker revenue is the format of our race programmes. Cards containing a dozen races are now routine, mostly beginning at nine o’clock at night in order to maximise betting opportunities for internet and phone betting. Such timing also coincides with increased traffic at out ‘racinos’ from those parties on a night out.
(7) One unfortunate development we have not been able to counter is the continuing decline in terrestrial television coverage of racing. The domestic state broadcaster now televises just one race day a year – the Ballybirt Derby at Galway.
However the good news is that a five minute slot for the race has been guaranteed, separate from the normal two hour coverage of the best dressed lady competition. Another boost is the agreement between HRI and RTE to pay Hector O’hEochagain per ‘upyboya’ on a fifty-fifty basis.
(8) Finally, I am delighted to be able to announce the discovery of some rare and exotic survivors of the on-course bookmaker tribe. Previously thought to be completely extinct, a small cluster have been found running wild on the Beara Peninsula, staring resentfully out to sea, muttering how seals contribute nothing and occasionally wailing inconsolably at the price of beef rolls.
The plan is to capture them, parade the calmer ones at various events until they expire, and then preserve them in formaldehyde and ethanol as mementos of another, and dare I say it, simpler time.
Is mise les meas.”
 
Possibly was, Gareth - ze leedle grey cells are not what they used to be! But that's not too off-the-wall an assessment, tongue-in-cheek as it might be. What a ghastly scenario!
 
Way back in the 80s (I think - before my time) when the Irish economy was in the toilet, a bunch of economists and cost cutters came together and formed "An Bord Snip" (Bord being the Irish for board). Well a new board has just come out with its report and "An Bord Snip Nua" recommends dismantling the Sports & Tourism department and cutting €17m from the Greyhound and Racing Fund.

This is massive. I think Horse Racing gets around €60m and lost 10% in the budget while the greyhounds lost €3m. If horseracing's share of the €17m is about €12m then it would be another 20% drop in funding and decimate the prizemoney in Ireland.

If ever there was a time to ensure that the middle tier of prizemoney is maintained, now is it. Coolmore, the Aga Khan, Moyglare etc etc will keep racing at the top level irrespective of the prizemoney and you already know my view of the bottom end of the prizemoney scale which I believe should have dropped by 30-40% anyway. It's the mid tier I fear for now and it will make it very difficult to attract people to ownership.

This will be a new dawn.
 
Cantoris said:
Way back in the 80s (I think - before my time) when the Irish economy was in the toilet, a bunch of economists and cost cutters came together and formed "An Bord Snip" (Bord being the Irish for board). Well a new board has just come out with its report and "An Bord Snip Nua" recommends dismantling the Sports & Tourism department and cutting €17m from the Greyhound and Racing Fund.

This is massive. I think Horse Racing gets around €60m and lost 10% in the budget while the greyhounds lost €3m. If horseracing's share of the €17m is about €12m then it would be another 20% drop in funding and decimate the prizemoney in Ireland.

If ever there was a time to ensure that the middle tier of prizemoney is maintained, now is it. Coolmore, the Aga Khan, Moyglare etc etc will keep racing at the top level irrespective of the prizemoney and you already know my view of the bottom end of the prizemoney scale which I believe should have dropped by 30-40% anyway. It's the mid tier I fear for now and it will make it very difficult to attract people to ownership.

This will be a new dawn.
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Same old flawed arguement Cantoris, and calling it an arguement is being generous.
 
Sheikh said:
Same old flawed arguement Cantoris, and calling it an arguement is being generous.
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Ok I'll amend the statement to I fear for all owners with a horse rated under 100 on the flat and 125 over jumps who normally spend under €40k for their horses. This includes the owner of a very bad horse and mid tier owners. No one buys a horse expecting it to pay its way but there should be some chance of getting training fees back if you do find a good one. If they take 20% more out of prizemoney the maiden hurdle at Kilbeggan would be worth €4,500 to the winner so a horse needs to win four of these to get their money back after deductions. Four time winner in a season not even covering its cost!!
 
Cantoris said:
If they take 20% more out of prizemoney the maiden hurdle at Kilbeggan would be worth €4,500 to the winner so a horse needs to win four of these to get their money back after deductions.
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Don't be daft - not even Arkle could win four maiden hurdles... :p

More seriously, I'm not sure exactly where I fall on the prizemoney debate tbh; what I will say is that given the cuts in other areas I certainly wouldn't be complaining about racing having to take its lumps (and in fairness, I haven't heard anybody complaining).
 
I don't have an issue with racing taking its share of the pain either. When they introduced the 10% cut I advocated taking a bigger cut now to 20%. But An Bord Snip would take 30% off in total and if Fine Gael get in then another 20% will come off on top of that. Unlike in the UK, where racing is funded by the levy, the Irish government has just broken the link between levy and race funding. It is now a discretionary grant. This is the real issue.
 
So Irish racing is entirely at the mercy of how the people who make up the various boards and ministries view racing, Cantoris?

From what I have read your current sports minister is not keen on racing, so another one like him would really put the squeeze on?
 
redhead said:
So Irish racing is entirely at the mercy of how the people who make up the various boards and ministries view racing, Cantoris?

From what I have read your current sports minister is not keen on racing, so another one like him would really put the squeeze on?
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That's it. Irish racing was linked to the levy until this year when they changed and essentially made it a grant. Irish racing has been very lucky over the last ten to fifteen years to have ministers that were into their racing and the current minister made a stand for racing in our House of Parliament recently. However, the opposition ahve made it clear that the funding will be annihalted if they get it.
 
These Fine Gael members clearly have a different view than their Finance spokesman, who on a number of occasions on Prime Time has mentioned the Horse & Greyhound Fund as an area where significant monetary savings could be made. There will be differing views within most parties but it is the people who make the decisions that count.
 
Horse Racing Ireland Announce 6-month Figures​


Difficult Period for Irish Racing​

- Prize Money down 14% -​

- Average Attendance down 14% -​

- Total Attendance down 17% -​

-Tote Betting down 17% -​


-Bookmaker Betting down 22%-​


Horse Racing Ireland released half year figures for 2009 today, which reveal further contractions in Irish racing’s key performance indicators. With fixtures declining by 4% and races by 5%, average attendances have fallen by 14%, while the total attendance is down 17% from the start of the year. There has been a similar fall in betting turnover, with the Tote down 17% and on-course bookmakers down 22%. Trainers are seeing a decline in horse numbers which are down 4%, with individual runners down by 6% and total runners down by 8%. Prize money fell by €3.9m (14%), while commercial sponsorship declined by 25%.

Whilst the average attendance has declined by 14% and total attendance by 17% to 498,308, there are still some positives to take out of a number of the key meetings. Attendances at several major festivals held up well, with Easter at Fairyhouse up 21% and at Cork up 14%. 95,000 racegoers attended the Punchestown Festival over the five days and, while corporate bookings were reduced by 15,000, the number of non-corporate attendees increased by 5,000. The later start times also resulted in an increased viewership on RTE for the first three days of the festival with a rise of 52% on the previous year.

On the racetrack, the on-going investment in the industry continues to pay dividends, with continued high profile international successes. In the National Hunt arena the highlight of the year was the nine Irish winners at the Cheltenham Festival. Along with the Irish trained winners, there were thirteen Irish bred winners (including 6 Grade 1's). Ruby Walsh was crowned Leading Cheltenham Festival jockey yet again with a record seven festival winners and the top five spots in the jockeys’ table were held by Irish riders, further emphasizing the international dominance of Irish athletes, both human and equine, in the sport.

On the Flat, Sea The Stars is currently the leading Flat horse in the world, having completed a remarkable treble by wining the English Guineas, Derby and Eclipse Stakes for Michael Kinane and John Oxx. The redoubtable Yeats deservedly earned his place in the history books by winning his fourth consecutive Ascot Gold Cup at Royal Ascot, whilst HRI’s Flat Ambassador Johnny Murtagh was crowned leading jockey at the meeting.

Commenting on the figures, Brian Kavanagh, Chief Executive, Horse Racing Ireland (HRI) said: “The first six months have not surprisingly proved to be very challenging, with Irish racing not immune from the effects of the economic slowdown. All our figures are down, but we must see them in context. Racing is coming from a very high bar, having achieved record figures in recent times, and 2008 saw a contraction in the Irish horse racing industry for the first time in more than fifteen years. With rising unemployment and continuing weak consumer confidence in so many markets, it is understandable that attendances at events, including race meetings are going to be affected. Racing will have to rise to the challenge and offer better value for our customers, with competitive pricing, increased offers and more incentives to reward our loyal racegoers”.
 
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Insiders, here as well as there, will just make up the difference on betfair. It can't be long now before the whole stinking, rancid mess hits the fan.
 
Galileo said:

​
Brian Kavanagh, Chief Executive, Horse Racing Ireland (HRI) said: “ Racing will have to rise to the challenge and offer better value for our customers, with competitive pricing, increased offers and more incentives to reward our loyal racegoers”.
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hallelujah
 
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