Obama out?

Clive, ALL polls post the last 2 debates had Obama the clear victor. You are letting your own feelings cloud your judgement here.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...residential-debate-what-the-pundits-said.html

Romney's gaffe on Libya (second debate) was as embarrassing a moment as you will see in a debate.

Couldn't agree more you are voting for a person in the US, not a party. Romney is thoroughly unlikeable to more people than a Republican candidate should be, and that will hinder, not help him. For all that Obama can appear aloof and hasn't delivered on his promises, he is a clear choice in the personality stakes.
 
So the swing state ohio is down to 3 points now? And you would wnat to take short odds on about that?

I dont wont romney to win any more than obama. Naturally enough it would be great to see the idiots who fawned over obamas presidency simply becuse he was black get one in the eye but overall i doubt there would be much difference between either in power. Both have weaknesses but both are quite centrist

But americans will vote for the economy and that was the most important debate. Dont be at all surprised if they take a strong view on that on polling day
 
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He doesnt have to win any particular state but hes odds against not odds on if that one goes against him
 
Because some polls have just had obama as much as 7 points behind in the popular vote and at best obama is even. The momentum is moving away from the lacklustre president. My hunch is that it coukd be unstoppable now

I would strongly caution against using one poll which is very much an outlier to draw any conclusions, Clive. In terms of the national polling, Realclearpolitics have Romney 0.9 points ahead at the minute (not sure if it's been updated for today's polls).

That said, all of the more serious data-driven forecasters (and the campaigns themselves) actually use state polls to "power" their models.* State polls generally are less prone to statistical noise and thus tend (note: tend :cool:) to provide better indicators. As things stand, the majority of these I have seen give Obama a slender lead as far as I can see.

About the first debate: as I think I said before, if Romney does win we will look back at the first debate as the turning point, but his momentum - in the polls at least - has flattened out in the last week or so. That said, the bounce was certainly enough to put him right back in the game, at the very least.

About the electoral map: Florida has tipped Romney's way though Obama hasn't given up there by any means judging by the amount of times he has been there recently and will be there in the next few days.

Ohio is pretty much the be all and end all this election. Both Obama and Romney can win the election without Ohio, but I would nearly argue their paths to winning are (almost) equally difficult. Obama would have to win in Colorado and Virginia (the two tightest states on the map) as well as holding in Iowa, Wisconsin, and Nevada. I think he will hold Wisconsin and Nevada, but Iowa is really tight if we believe the polling.

The reason it's slightly tougher for Romney is because he has to win Iowa and Nevada if he loses Ohio. As opposed to the knife-edge states (Va./Co. - both of which Romney would have to hold) Obama would have to win, Obama has a lead in both Nevada and Iowa, and I find it hard to see him losing Nevada. I could easily be wrong. Also, the population in Iowa is relatively similar demographically to that in Ohio, so if Romney (or Obama) does worse than expected in Ohio, he may be in trouble in Iowa as well.

About the punting: I think the advantage is with Obama, but 2/5 is on the short side. The election is tighter than that I think. The nerds who do these things for a living in dark offices in Washington for their (and my...) paymasters reckon Obama has a 65.8999% chance of winning the election using their state aggregation method as of two hours ago. So I suppose I would be looking for bigger than 2's on to be getting any value right now.

Incidentally, Intrade only give Obama something like a 57% chance of winning outright.

I think I said a few posts ago that if Romney won it would be because things tilted in his favour nationally. I (think I) will be wrong about that. This will come down to the electoral map, but that does not necessarily mean Obama is a nailed on, 12-inch hammer job.

*In forming a national picture from state polls, you have to weight the numbers by voter turn-out by state. This is where the methodology differs from firm to firm.
 
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trackside... i pointed it out as one poll, i know most are closer

Romneys bounce was bound to flatten out. Hes not going to jump 5 points a week is he? But subsequent debates seem to have had no affect. The second was by all accounts pretty even and maybe its early to judge the affect of the third, but foreign policy isnt going to be a big vote changer

i think romney is very ordinary as a candidate and you if the GOP had put up someone stronger, then Obama would have been wiped out. It speaks volumes about his presidency that it is so close.

Also if Obama wins with less than the majority of the popular vote, i wonder if those that squealed about Gore will do so again?
 
Obama won the second and third debates by virtually all polling measures, but they have had no real impact as far as I can see. The first debate is generally the most important, but was even more so this year because Romney had so much to lose (and hence to gain). For him to perform so well (or Obama so badly) resuscitated his campaign to a large degree.

The problem with the Romney bounce flattening - which it definitely has - is that it still (most probably) leaves him short of winning the election. Unless the error in the polling until now has been systematic (that is, biased towards Obama all along), Obama would almost certainly win the election if it were held today. Romney needs something to happen between now and November 6 to tilt swing voters away from Obama; with the recent economic data relatively encouraging (politically speaking) it's difficult to see where that will come from.

Not sure about the counter-factual to be honest. I tend to agree that Romney is no more than an average candidate, but if you think about the alternatives - Chris Christie? Jeb Bush? - I still think we would be looking at a pretty tight election.* Obama as a candidate is pretty strong and, just as importantly I would argue, has a sharp campaign team behind him. The likes of Axelrod and Plouffe won't be far off the Rove/Carville pantheon of political genius if Obama wins this election comfortably - and rightly so.

*The one exception I think may have been Mitch Daniels from Indiana. He ticked all the right boxes as far as I could see.
 
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He didnt "win" the debates by clear margins. The first was a thrashing and that is what resonates.

Romney is going to fall short I think but you are missing the point about other candidates. I am not talking about alternatives, i am talking about an ideal.

Obama is possibly going to lose to a slightly charmless, flip flopping Mormon who has a severe case of foot in mouth and is hopeless on foreign policy (russia biggest danger etc etc). Romney has strengths but as as incumbent being so at risk to such a candidate doesnt mark him out as strong at all.
 
*The one exception I think may have been Mitch Daniels from Indiana. He ticked all the right boxes as far as I could see.

Worth remembering that Kerry and Mondale probably ticked all the boxes whilst Clinton and Reagan almost certainly didn't
 
I pay very little attention to the American political scene but I would be surprised if it didn't go something like this Republicans select their man -Obama let's rip-it's no contest from an early stage and Paddy
Power pay out before the voting starts.
What are the statistics on presidents getting re-elected.

Got a text from one of my mates this afternoon congratulating me on my Obama prediction -Powers have paid out-needless to say I didn't put the money down.
 
George W was hopeless on foreign policy but unfortunately that didn't go against him. That said I can't see Obama losing, and regarding Ohio, every president since Kennedy has needed it and won it.
 
I've had a nose bleed stakes bet on Obama receiving over 300.5 College votes with Stan James. He will get at least 305.
 
Obama is ahead by 4/5 points in Ohio,plus he is a favourite to win Wisconsin.Allabout these 2 states.In fact it's really all about Ohio and a 5point lead is massive.Id agree with the 289.5 comment,buying money.
 
I'll go between 290 and 300 electoral votes for Obama.

Virginia, Colorado, and New Hampshire are in play tonight. Florida might possibly be, but I doubt it.
 
I backed 310-329 first thing this morning at 11/2.....more as a measure of my perception of the value-price ans how I hope the Yanks vote, than through any insight.

Tracks, how would the swing States need to fall for me to collect?
 
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