Off To War ?

icebreaker said:
From http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4442988.stm

"If on the other hand the toxic properties of white phosphorus, the caustic properties, are specifically intended to be used as a weapon, that of course is prohibited, because the way the Convention is structured or the way it is in fact applied, any chemicals used against humans or animals that cause harm or death through the toxic properties of the chemical are considered chemical weapons."[/I]
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There were "ten suspected burns victims" . Intended as a weapon? Not much use was it?
 
simmo said:
but ignored the part which leaves the question unanswered and does not proivde a rebuttal.

i.e. - you chose the bit you like.
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I apologise for getting weary of this back-and-forth arguing.
I'll let it go by saying that I thought Peter Kaisers classification of White Phosphorus as a chemical weapon was conclusive, but I'll leave it to others to make up their own individual minds about it. :)
 
swedish chef said:
iqbal.latif

“We call on President Assad to end immediately the killing of civilians, withdraw the Syrian army from besieged towns and cities and step aside in order to make room for a peaceful transition for the sake of his country.”

The European parliament expressed dismay and its president, Martin Schulz, urged Moscow and Beijing to “take their international responsibilities seriously”. London-based rights group Amnesty International called the veto a “shockingly callous betrayal” of the Syrian people.

Moscow and Beijing have acted in a “completely irresponsible” way, the London-based human rights group added.

Thirteen countries voted for the resolution with only Russia and China voting against. Both countries, as permanent members of the Security Council, have a veto power.

The draft resolution, put forward by Morocco, had called for an immediate end to all violence. It did not impose any sanctions, nor did it authorize military action. Mohammed Loulichki, the U.N. ambassador of Morocco, the sole Arab member of the 15-nation council, voiced his “great regret and disappointment” at the veto and said the Arabs had no intention of abandoning their plan.

When free expression is denied humanity is denied. Human dignity is not a 'God bestowed right' it is an innate right to respect and receive ethical treatment. It is an offshoot of Enlightenment-era concepts of inherent, inalienable rights.

The developments in Damascus and New York now make it clear that the outcome of the Syrian civil war will be decided on the battlefield rather than at the Security Council; the rebel fighters in Syria remain relatively poorly armed, they are increasingly battle-hardened and their morale is being boosted by a growing number of defections from Assad’s regime, diplomats say.

Western and Arab powers Saturday reacted angrily to Russia and China’s veto of a Security Council resolution on the Syria crisis, but Moscow and Beijing insisted the text needed more work.
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Putin's 'Liver eaters' - The new Reputation!


The Putin-Bandar meeting was stormy, replete with warnings of a “dramatic turn” in Syria. Putin termed the Syrian opposition as Liver Eaters. Curse of **Hind bint 'Utbah' wife of Abu Sufyan ibn Harb and the mother of Muawiyah 1 haunts the faithful even today. Memories never leave a man!!


Mr Putin was unmoved by the Saudi offer of oil, though western pressure has escalated since then. “Our stance on Assad will never change. We believe that the Syrian regime is the best speaker on behalf of the Syrian people, and not those liver eaters,” he said, referring to footage showing a Jihadist rebel eating the heart and liver of a Syrian soldier.

Prince Bandar in turn warned that there can be “no escape from the military option” if Russia declines the olive branch.

**Hind an Arab woman who lived in the late 6th and early 7th centuries CE; she was the wife of Abu Sufyan ibn Harb, a powerful man of Mecca, in western Arabia. Both Abu Sufyan and Hind originally opposed the Islamic prophet Muhammad. She was the mother of Muawiyah I, the founder of the Umayyad dynasty, and of Ramlah bint Abi Sufyan, who was one of Muhammad's wives.

Incident of alleged battlefield cannibalism:

Hind is infamous in Islamic history for her exultation at the defeat of the Muslims at the Battle of Uhud when she ate the liver of Prophet's slain uncle Hamza ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib. Although she later converted to Islam, the founder of the Umayyad Caliphate Muawiyah I was thus later slandered to be an illegitimate son of a cannibal.
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@Do you think Syria situation is similar to Serbia=Bosnia situation

No- It is not about similarity of geo politics of Bosnia and Syria. Iti s about the fact that friends of Assad claim that it is a nexus between Jews , Americans and Saudis to get Assad, it is all hogwash, Assad had killed women and children from 1982, his father did it, his uncle did it, and he does it with impunity.

This is the curse of the historical schism between Shiite and sunni Islam playing at its most ghastly. Allawites who consider 'Ali as Maula' a divinity and Brotherhood and Sunnis who have been rebelling against the Allawites since Assad take over.

It has been partially hijacked by Al-Qaida as AfPak region was, Al-Qaida like a orphaned vulture moves in any vacuum where livers have to be eaten, they want their share of bloodiness in any callous killing of the faithful.

@I find these so called FSA shouting allah hu akbar,a slogan of jehadis.These rebels are not like bosnians but supported by jehadi islamist.

No, you are not fully aware of the history of the region. Allah u Akbar is uttered as a hobby, a battle cry to subdue the infidels all over, when even Shoaib Akhtar bowled out Tendulkar, this is their habit to beat the infidels. Even the most refined of the faithful carry this heartfelt arrogance and tinkling of their tyrannical rule of over 1000 years, this is the culmination of the rage of impotence, when they don't get the infidels they tear each other apart, they have no respect for this life to get rewards of afterlife 72 houries.

Free Syrian Army (FSA) led by Salim Idris, he runs the southern front in Syria. southern strategy is a very reliable rebel group that opposes Al-Qaida, it has even a unit of Alawites. They are Syrians fighting for liberty. The rebel units are winning more and more territory at the expense of both Assad and al Qaeda, which has been using the war in Syria as an chance to expand its reach to establish what it hopes will be a Islamic emirate towards the goal of worldwide caliphate. The “southern strategy'' has crippled Assad regime, they have build-up rebel forces in and around Damascus, mainly in the towns of Barzeh, Jobar, and Qaboun. These towns are located in Eastern Ghouta district, the area that Assad gassed last week.

Message should be loud and clear: Use of WMDs is intolerable!! Today, tomorrow and forever and by anyone.
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iqbal.latif

The present schism of Islam between Iran and Saudi Arabia and the challenge Arab spring faces in Syria derives its origins from the womb of injustices dating back to origins of Islam. It is a split that cannot be fully understood if genealogy of Quraysh remains shrouded.

Prophet of Islam paid a huge price for the unity of Quraysh; he integrated the descendants of Abd Shams Abu Sufyan under the tabernacle of Islam to create a unified power base. The Abd Shams clan of Umayyads eliminated Prophets entire family in Kerbela 72 of them. Muawiyah I founder of the Umayyad Caliphate is slandered as son of a cannibal.

It was a war between Banu Hashim and Banu Umayyads; Prophet of Islam made peace with Abu Sufiyan his arch enemy but Banu Hashim lost out to Umayyads. Muawiyah I was the father of Yazid, who beheaded Hussein grandson of Muhammad in Kerbela. .

Muawiyah I was the founder of the Umayyad dynasty. He was the son of Hind bint ‘Utbah was an Arab woman who lived in the late 6th and early 7th centuries CE; she was the wife of Abu Sufyan ibn Harb, a powerful man of Mecca, in western Arabia.

Both Abu Sufyan and Hind originally opposed the Islamic prophet Muhammad to the hilt until fall of Mecca. Before her conversion in Battle of Uhud she ate the liver of Muhammad's slain uncle Hamza ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib.

Her conversion after fall of Mecca was seemingly an act of political expediency. These roguish enemies of Prophet of Islam took over the course of Islam soon after his death, first by denying his son in law Ali the caliphate and then cleansing the entire family of Banu Hashim from annals of Islamic history in Karbala.

The reason why Iran backs Syrians minority 'Allawites Arabs' and why Nejd/Hejaz supports Hama is based on a long standing rupture that dates back to the origins of Islam. The change if any will have to come from the rebellion of majority Syrians against the 'Alawite regime' this rebellion against the regime will have to be supported by the Turks, Hashemites of Jordan, Saudis and probably Israelis. The leverage of Iran over Lebanon without Syrian regime and the land bridge that it effectively provides is zero. Iraqi pro Iranian Shiite government and the historical game changer stands silent as 'Allawites' are more close to Shiites than the Sunnis.
 
And ultimately no one here should be lectured by a foreigner over whether we should be involved or not
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I can't agree with this when you are using the term "involved" to mean militarily involved.

The idea that one country could shell another and nobody else in the world would have the right to even comment on it is risible.
 
As ever you have not looked at in this in the context of what was posted

Harry was called a "little englander" because he didnt believe troops should be involved others conflicts

Thats a fcking joke coming from anyone outside our borders frankly. Its not YOUR taxes and not YOUR people. He is perfectly entitled to take that line without the usual sneer
 
Clive,

The usual moronic ill-informed comments from you.

I DO pay taxes in the UK.

I made the little Englander comment in reference to Harry saying one British soldier isn't worth however many Syrians. That kind of mindless ignorance is worth a far harsher comment, but best to look at the likes of you both and make a joke of it.
 
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You're a fine man to talk about sneering, but if that is what you meant then fair enough. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with being a little Englander if it means a reluctance to get involved in other countries' quarrels, although the term is more normally used in a different sense, to mean being xenophobe.

I agree with Harry that the impact of violence on individual soldiers and their families, and on all other victims of violence, too often gets overlooked.
 
Well if you had any idea about the world you would find that that is the majority view worldwide. I suppose they are all bigots too.
How many other countries are prepared to sacrifice their soldiers in Syria? Eh?

Sweden, Switzerland and so on???

Going to label them and their populations "bigots" too. When they refuse to get involved absolutely anywhere?

You haven't a fcking clue have you

The irony of those here that squeal about british "meddling" and intervetion and then wail that there is a voiced objection to sacrificing our troops in a conflict, which frankly has nothing to do with us, is quite incredible
 
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Grey said:
You're a fine man to talk about sneering, but if that is what you meant then fair enough. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with being a little Englander if it means a reluctance to get involved in other countries' quarrels, although the term is more normally used in a different sense, to mean being xenophobe.

I agree with Harry that the impact of violence on individual soldiers and their families, and on all other victims of violence, too often gets overlooked.
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Ok. I dont agree with Harrys view as it happens

We know the context in which it was used though

enough said on this i think
 
clivex said:
Well if you had any idea about the world you would find that that is the majority view worldwide. I suppose they are all bigots too.
How many other countries are prepared to sacrifice their soldiers in Syria? Eh?

Sweden, Switzerland and so on???

Going to label them and their populations "bigots" too. When they refuse to get involved absolutely anywhere?

You haven't a fcking clue have you

The irony of those here that squeal about british "meddling" and intervetion and then wail that there is a voiced objection to sacrificing our troops in a conflict, which frankly has nothing to do with us, is quite incredible
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You are not going to answer the tax/right to have a view point, are you?

Again, please at least TRY to read what I wrote - I said what I said, I never said i had any issue with anyone, be it in britain or otherwise, not wanting to get involved.

What I DO have an issue with is someone saying a British life is worth more than god knows how many Syrians.

Please at least try and stop taking every single post out of context.
 
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Welcome to Clivex World.

Please keep your hands within the vehicle at all times.

Lie on your back with your arms crossed - do NOT attempt to stand-up.

Management cannot accept responsibility for patrons lost garments and minds.
 
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What the fck are you on about?

Wasn't it you that first said they"could sort it themselves" or some such?

"Little Scotsman"
 
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Hamm said:
Harry, you are clearly not reading the news.

I suggest you go to another thread as this thread, and any possible intervention, has nothing to do with soldiers getting involved on the ground, so as to why twice now you have linked that to this topic I have no idea.

A bit like what you were on about in your cracking cricket thread..
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Hamm, air strikes "could" lead to ground troops moving in.....or not??

Thats what I meant if we, once again, get involved in a Middle Eastern mess.

However, you do remain the biggest tool on the forum;). Desperate Dan is very close to you though:lol:
 
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Bitterly disappointing news. It wasn't the jews or americans. Un is going to nail lying assad

The us france and uk knew. Anyone who thought that obama would risk take on this is clueless. Putin knew too of course.

Further slide in polls for mr bean too
 
You're just miffed that the U.S. has been out-manouvred and prevented from going on a carpet-bombing spree, no?
;)

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I disagree entirely with carpet bombing the arab world. There is much valuable wild life there and there could be risk of damage to oil rigs
 
More seriously the us looks spot on now and putin (who knew full well what occured) comes across as playing petty politics with gas attacks on children. I suppose he can now have another journalist shot to make himself feel better

My other bet is that there was pretty strong intelligence which millibean was aware of (that's been hinted at) but couldn't be made public for whatever reason. But you can bet it will when time is right and the public can make their own judgement.
 
As if the U.S. could ever take the moral high-ground on chemical weapons seeing as they themselves are sitting on the world's largest stockpile of same.

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