Paul Kimmage - Racing's dirty secret

100%, JSB has a strong moral compass and being an informant involves deviating from it so not going to happen.

This is about his long-running feud with the IHRB, not any one stable. He believes the IHRB should be testing for “X” which they are currently not doing thereby (in his view) allowing certain outfits to circumvent or game the system.

I believe this will form the basis of his testimony. He wants his pound of flesh with the IHRB.
 
if he wants to avoid sounding like the fellow in the pub, which I'm sure he doesn't given he's scarcely ever been in one, he needs to start giving some details. Where are the misdeeds taking place, and when? When foals and yearlings are being prepped for the sales, when young horses are in pre-training, when horses are being primed in the weeks and days before a big race, or even on the day itself?

Are these allegations based on his own observations or what he has been told by others? Do the allegations relate to a specific period, present or past? Are specific substances involved?

Why does he think the guilty one(s) has not been caught? Because they are more sophisticated than the testers and know how to mask their activities, or because the authorities have been looking for the wrong things and in the wrong places?

He also needs to say what he thinks of the new testing regime now finally in place. Does he think it will be effective? What potential weaknesses does he see in it? Why did he not mention it in his interview with Paul Kimmage?
 
Good post, Grey. Easy to throw muck but you have to get it to stick, there is a hell of a lot of Teflon about these days and the Tories don't have a total monopoly on it.
 
Grey said:
if he wants to avoid sounding like the fellow in the pub, which I'm sure he doesn't given he's scarcely ever been in one, he needs to start giving some details. Where are the misdeeds taking place, and when? When foals and yearlings are being prepped for the sales, when young horses are in pre-training, when horses are being primed in the weeks and days before a big race, or even on the day itself?

Are these allegations based on his own observations or what he has been told by others? Do the allegations relate to a specific period, present or past? Are specific substances involved?

Why does he think the guilty one(s) has not been caught? Because they are more sophisticated than the testers and know how to mask their activities, or because the authorities have been looking for the wrong things and in the wrong places?

He also needs to say what he thinks of the new testing regime now finally in place. Does he think it will be effective? What potential weaknesses does he see in it? Why did he not mention it in his interview with Paul Kimmage?
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I think he has covered quite a few of these things.
 
I’d be grateful for a link, Slim, I’ve not seen anything myself except talk of Lance Armstrong.
 
The two articles are easy to search for online. They are behind a paywall, which I think is quite reasonable.

Proper long form pieces like these are expensive and shouldn't be given away for free online.

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I agree that proper journalism should be supported, but most of the membership here are not Irish and can hardly be expected to subscribe to Irish newspapers.

But that's by the way. As regards the Kimmage interviews, they are interesting, but Bolger's allegation is extremely vague. Even if he is strongly hinting that it concerns one very large fish, he hasn't said anything about what they are supposedly up to.
 
Jessica Harrington has asked, "where is this all coming from" in response to Jim Bolger's claims that drug cheats are "the number one problem" in Irish racing.

Harrington, who will forever be associated with superstar chaser Moscow Flyer and a plethora of top-class horses on the Flat more recently, including Alpha Centauri, said the suggestion that Irish trainers are doping horses makes her sad. She is the first trainer to come out and challenge Bolger's most recent assertions on the record.

Bolger initially voiced his concerns back in October and has reaffirmed his stance on the issue in a series of Sunday Independent interviews with Paul Kimmage recently in which he demanded "a level playing pitch" in Irish racing.

Kimmage, a former cyclist, put it to Bolger that he was "seeing a lot of parallels with pro cycling", and the trainer replied: "Well, there will be a Lance Armstrong in Irish racing."

Bolger will be given the opportunity to substantiate his claims during a parliamentary agriculture committee hearing on July 6 when the sport's senior officials will also be quizzed about some of the comments made by the trainer in recent weeks.

In conversation with Ruby Walsh in a televised interview on RTE Racing on Sunday, Harrington denied ever doping horses and said she hoped there wasn't an issue with drug cheats in Irish racing.

"Every time any trainer has a winner now, there is a suspicion whether there are drugs in the horse," Harrington said. "I do not give my horses drugs. I've been training for 35 years and I have always been straight and honest. I'm an open book and, if they want to come in here and test, I'd be only too happy.

"It makes me sad that people think that horses are drugged and people think that trainers are drugging horses. As far as I'm concerned, catch the people who are doing it, if they are doing it. Punish them very severely because they are damaging our sport.

"Not only have my horses been tested in this country but I have had winners in England, France and in America, they all get tested even before they start in a race. Nothing has ever come back positive so I am just wondering where this is all coming from?"

Harrington added: "Yes, I think testing is very important and I think there should be more testing. Every winner in Ireland is tested and there are a certain amount of random tests every year. They [IHRB] have the right to come into this yard because I am a licensed trainer. They can search the yard and take whatever tests they want to. They can look at all my records."

When asked if she thought there was a drug issue in Irish racing, Harrington said: "I hope there isn't but there are people using drugs in every sport and there are people who try to get the better of the testing system.

"All I can do is stand with my hand on my heart and say I don't do it. I presume that, when they are testing horses, they have a list and know what they are testing for – I don't really understand that to start with. But they are testing to a high standard. Is it high enough? I don't know. That's up to the regulators to have it to a high enough standard."
 
I just want to know who Jim Bolger is accusing now.

In one of the transcripts to these interviews he says O Brien 'deserves all the success he's had' or something along those lines.

So maybe he's not accusing Aidan O Brien.
 
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It probably has already happened but think plenty will want Bolger to put up or shut up immediately. Otherwise he will be ignored and he can continue to hint at huge bombshells in any future interview. Created a huge rod for his own back if he is not going to follow through on this, no matter how Kimmage, Walsh et al portray him.
 
Unless he’s got absolute proof positive (and how could he have) there’s no way he can name names unless he wants to be dragged through the courts. The best he can do is hope that his reputation is sufficient to light a fire under the authorities and get them upping their investigative and testing efforts.
 
barjon said:
Unless he’s got absolute proof positive (and how could he have) there’s no way he can name names unless he wants to be dragged through the courts. The best he can do is hope that his reputation is sufficient to light a fire under the authorities and get them upping their investigative and testing efforts.
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And until he does, everyone, guilty or innocent is suspected.
 
As a trainer said to me yesterday , Irish horses have won all around the World from Ireland, UK, France, Saudi Arabia, Hong Kong, USA and none have failed any drug test.
Unlike Jim to shoot from the hip but ......there is too much taxpayers money involved for Authorities not to take it seriously
 
Grey said:
I’d be grateful for a link, Slim, I’ve not seen anything myself except talk of Lance Armstrong.
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I've posted both articles on this thread. You can also listen to his interview with Nick Luck on his podcast they week of Royal Ascot.
 
That's fine, Slim, I wasn't sure whether I'd missed something, because I can't find any useful detail in what Bolger has said so far. There's a strong hint about the who but nothing yet about the what or how.
 
Grey said:
That's fine, Slim, I wasn't sure whether I'd missed something, because I can't find any useful detail in what Bolger has said so far. There's a strong hint about the who but nothing yet about the what or how.
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Well he's basically said it's ancedotal. He has no proof.
 
One thing that has always struck me as unusual regarding Willie Mullins.

He seems to often buy horses that have run in France (usually in bumpers). He gets them into the yard, and then they often don't run for a long time (up to a year sometimes).

Perhaps I am wrong here and he actually doesnt have the horses that long. And perhaps other trainers do the very same thing.


But if i am right, then you would wonder what is going on for the 12 months they are not running on the track.

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Mullins is generally buying them at 3yo and 4yo and then giving time to the ones that need it.

I don't think there is anything particularly sinister in some of them being off-track for a stretch, after being bought once/twice-raced out of a claimer, for example.
 
They tend to be pretty highly tried/trained in France from a very young age and quite probably are denied their natural growing phase. Possibly they go a little weak when they arrive there and he just gives them a chance to grow on?
 
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Fair enough, genuinely didn't know what the reasons for it was. Would this approach be pretty common across NH yards?

For some reason I had it in my head that he tended to take much longer from buying them to getting to the track.

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You'd be lucky to see one from Tim Forster or Jim Dreaper until they were about nine.

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Entirely dependent on the type of horse. A 3mile plus chaser will invariably take longer to mature than a 2mile hurdler. And different trainers often concentrate on different types. Someone like the Skeltons tend to crack on with them very quickly to get the instant results. Which they do but I’m not sure how high the attrition rate is.

In France they school 2 year olds over hurdles and they know their job very quickly. I think the fact that Kauto Star ran six times as a 3yo over obstacles and still progressed into what he became shows what an exceptional racehorse he was.
 
littlelad said:
One thing that has always struck me as unusual regarding Willie Mullins.

He seems to often buy horses that have run in France (usually in bumpers). He gets them into the yard, and then they often don't run for a long time (up to a year sometimes).
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I've lost count of the number of times I've mentioned this to the brother over the phone.

I'm not convinced they're anywhere near the yard during that time.

Same with the ones that disappear off the radar to 'Martinstown' for a year and more.

But it would would grieve me greatly if I were right in my suspicions.
 
Mullins takes longer to bring these types to the track than say Nicholls or Henderson, but it’s a difference of degree rather than a different order of magnitude. I think he also takes longer to prep all his horses for their first run after a break. They build up a core strength and fitness that stands to them for the season.

One thing that puzzles me is why trainer’s buying point winners usually put them through a similarly long break and then reintroduce them to the track in bumpers and hurdle races. Is this not the equivalent of sending a primary school kid back to the nursery?
 
Yeah, I always presumed that the idea of buying a horse that already has experience is that you can crack on with them immediately, rather than having to give them time off

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