Paul Roy and Betfair

You'd hope so Gal.

Given the good Lord's association with Paddy Power though (Lord Donoghue I think) you'd be odds-on he stays where he is.

Racing looks even worse than normal after this debacle.
 
What have I missed? He's not been found out for laying Pistolet Noir has he? :D
 
I am confused by Racing for Change (most of the time) now Paul Roy is investing in Betfair - no wonder I am confused!!!! What is happening to our sport?
 
Have I got this right: NewSmith is owned by Roy, but Roy 'wouldn't have taken the decision' to invest NewSmith's money in Betfair? So who's at the tiller, then? He thinks the scourge of British racing, whose interests he chairs, is a good business model, so wouldn't be averse to making a few million out of it, if possible? I haven't misunderstood this, have I?

I suspect there's secret altruism afoot here: once he's trousered a monster return, he'll be giving it all away as prize money to the owners whose causes he's been so keen to champion. Well done, Mr Roy! Would there were more philanthropic investors like yourself, sir!
 
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I actually think the Yahoo article is a shade misleading in suggesting that NewSmith Capital is "his" (him being Paul Roy's) company.

He is listed as a founding partner of the firm on it's website (one of five) and presumably his argument is that the decision was made by the NewSmith board in spite of his opposition.

Whether this makes his continued position as head of the BHA justifiable is a different matter entirely.
 
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Just because one of the directors does not like Betfair's impact it is unreasonable to think that New Smith would not take a position on the Befair float on behalf of its investors. Its job is to make money for it those who invest in its fund.
Certainly not illegal or unethical. A director might believe that Tobacco companies are profiting from the addiction and death of their customers however unless the company of which he is a director has ruled out investing in tobacco then he would be wrong to miss a money making opportunity for the people investing with the company.
Poor , uninformed, reporting.
 
I don't think it's poor or uninformed because the bald facts are straight, TS. Is he or is he not on the board of NewSmith? Yes. Has he or has he not spoken out very strongly against Betfair on behalf of the BHA? Yes. Is he or is he not the Chair of the BHA, which represents the interests of racing? Yes. Does the investment by a company of which he is a director in a business which he has vilified many a time and oft as not in the interests of racing constitute a conflict of interests? Well, let's put it this way: white man speak with forked tongue. He can't pretend that NewSmith is acting in the interests of racing, because it isn't. He can't continue to vilify a company in which he and his co-directors are investing millions.

He should either resign from NewSmith or step down from chairing the BHA in favour of someone without their feet in opposing camps. Typical of a certain type of person, though, I'm sure he will say he sees no problem is calling Betfair seven shades of shite while making money out of it for himself and NewSmith shareholders. How can he possibly go in to bat in the interests of prize money for owners when he's hugely supporting a company which has been a target of his opprobrium? You can't have it all ways, although I'm sure he'll give it a damn good try.

He's a non-executive director or something like that for Cenkos, Andy Stewart's wealth management company. At least Cenkos Securities supports racing, no doubt through Stewart's interests, rather than Roy's. Apart from sending up his missus to receive a trophy now and then, Roy is an ungracious, unsmiling money-making machine, it seems, who has never acted for the BHA (read - owners) with the alacrity with which I'm sure he's done the maths re Betfair and decided to hell with moaning about first prizes of £1,200 - let's have a bloody good punt at this one. Showing exactly where, pretensions of status aside, his true loyalties lie. I'm more than pissed off with this, having read enough of his pratings in the TB Owner & Breeder mag and occasionally in the RP, all inveighing against the evils of offshores, exchanges, etc., world without end.

Martin: :lol: Oh, if only!!
 
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So if the firm he is a director of is managing your pension fund that fund should miss out on a opportunity in one of the big floats of the year. Nonsense! The people who work for him do not have to get his permission to invest the funds which they manage on behalf of pension funds, local authorities,charities, me, etc. It would be wrong if they had to do so.

The company he works for manage people's money. What right does he have to influence the investments other than if in themselves ( not just in his view) they are illegal and unethical.
If he were Chair of a environmental lobby should the firm have to avoid oil company shares? there are many examples one can use.
 
So should Barney O'Hare be charged with laying his horses. He owns a chain of betting shops and trains horses. He has, through his bookies offices, "laid" his horses if you following the absolute letter of the law. But common sense would tell you that he should be ok as he is not able to lengthen the price in the bookies office and therefore attract punters. Rather punters are taking a price offered in the market and placing that bet with him.

I see it as similar to the Roy situation. Betfair is a large business floating on the stock market. Any investment house with a spread of risk and interests will want a piece of it in some way, shape or form. Some of us might hate BP but our pensions include a holding of BP so we are all supporting them!! So have you changed your pension fund manager to one that explicitly states it does not invest in BP? If Roy was involved in a strategic position, say, to take control of Betfair, that would be different. But £5m is very small in the investment world and this is really a non-event in my book.
 
I don't care if Roy works for a company which invests in Betfair one bit. I object to the fact that the man is the current Chair of the BHA and has railed over and over about Betfair et al.

There are plenty of companies which don't touch what they consider to be 'unethical' investments, TS, as you know, and I fail to see a dichotomy between chairing an environmental lobby and investing in oil, either, since drilling doesn't have to mean environmental destruction. Oil production is remarkably clean and invisible. Of course, if something goes terribly wrong, like the American/BP spillage, there's some fall-out, but things going wrong and ruining lives has been most vividly demonstrated of late either by natural forces (floods and earthquakes) or by bankers' greed - the latter very clean, but not very ethical.

Of course directors influence investments! That's what their job is - to source what they think will make the biggest buck as quickly as possible. Clearly, NewSmith doesn't have a problem with one of their directors having mouthed off against the company they're investing in, which is fine - what isn't fine is that Roy has, to my mind, compromised his position to continue to battle for increases in owners' prize money in the arena in which he previously did. He will have to muzzle himself against criticism of Betfair or be derided for having a hand in its pocket, while owners continue to suffer reducing rewards for running their horses. Yes, £5m may well be teeth-picking money in the investment world, but it's irrelevant whether it's £5 or £500m. It's Roy's lengthy outspoken words agin the company and his position in the BHA which rankle, not the investment per se.

It's only about opinions, though, not the coming of the next messiah!
 
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Martin Kelly and, more directly and vehemently, Claude Duval on ATR this morning have pretty much said what I've put. You can't run with the hares and hunt with the hounds. A point which Kelly made and which bears consideration is that racing is a multi-billion pound industry (implying whose employees rely on people buying horses to race), and it is the interests of those investors in racing who Roy should be looking after in his position as BHA Chair. His stinging remarks made recently about Betfair contributing to the demise of racing in the UK were repeated and both men didn't think that his position as Chair sat well against investment, from which he will benefit, in the company he'd so vilified. Personally, I think he should resign and leave the Chair to someone without any financial interests connected to racing, and particularly to interests which they believe - or gave the impression of believing - are contra to the interests of racing.
 
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Cantoris said:
If Roy was involved in a strategic position, say, to take control of Betfair, that would be different. But £5m is very small in the investment world and this is really a non-event in my book.
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So what figure suddenly makes it an "event"?

Leaves his position completely untenable when you consider the negotiations he will be involved in over the next few months.
 
I sent an e-mail to Sean Boyce at ATR and his response was that this must surely be the 'final nail' in his coffin re chairing the BHA. I've truly had it with the hypocritical venality of some people and Roy's actions are well up there with expenses-fiddling MPs. We batter on about the integrity of racing, and its blasted Chairman can't see straight? Come on!
 
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K,
I have no opinion at all about Roy's ability at the BHA, I don't know enough about him, or the job, to have one. However I hope you hang him for other reasons than "the BetFair ownership scandal".
 
does anyone really care about this?

the game is completely bent..so why be surprised the bentness strays from the actual races

move on..nothing to see here
 
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Why should we 'move on'? Just because the issue doesn't interest you personally, EC, does that mean it has to be dumped? I'm not interested in the points people get here and there with their betting, but I'm not rude enough to tell them, in essence, to stop being boring and shaddup.

Perhaps you need to be in the UK, not Ireland, to have a bit of a grip on the situation. I forget the parochial attitudes on here at times, and tend to think there's a general interest in racing per se, not just the 5.45 at Dundalk and how you're going to fill your pockets. Anyway, I won't pursue the issue as clearly no-one gives a rat's arse about hypocrisy.
 
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krizon said:
Why should we 'move on'? Just because the issue doesn't interest you personally, EC, does that mean it has to be dumped? I'm not interested in the points people get here and there with their betting, but I'm not rude enough to tell them, in essence, to stop being boring and shaddup.

Perhaps you need to be in the UK, not Ireland, to have a bit of a grip on the situation. I forget the parochial attitudes on here at times, and tend to think there's a general interest in racing per se, not just the 5.45 at Dundalk and how you're going to fill your pockets. Anyway, I won't pursue the issue as clearly no-one gives a rat's arse about hypocrisy.
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I am in the UK Kri

Its not really a matter of not interesting me - its more like - whats new?

the level of corruption/cronyism/brown enveloping/vested interests/hypocrisy in many aspects of todays society is just the norm to me..i expect it ..would have thought most were used to it by now.

is that what we are talking about with this type of topic?

the minions are just that..and they don't stick together or scratch each others backs..whereas further up the money chain..theres lots of that happening.

anyway..what is going to win the 5.45 at Dundalk? :)
 
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Barry Dennis is as as bad as Roy anyway..one of the biggest ever critics of Betfair..but is a major trader on there

these people have no shame..but they aren't alone..not when there is money to be made

greed - rules
 
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