Whats more Arkle might not have been half the horse he supposidly was when trained under such modern techniques with rivals fully match fit from proper training establishments - and not from hunting and galloping in ploughed fields.
Phil Smith - Arkle
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Whats more Arkle might not have been half the horse he supposidly was when trained under such modern techniques with rivals fully match fit from proper training establishments - and not from hunting and galloping in ploughed fields.
Irish Stamp
Forum Moderator
There's also a much wider range of horses to choose from - how often were horses imported from the US, France, Australia back in the 1960's?
Even though most are flat horses a sizable minority end up over hurdles/fences at some point.
Even though most are flat horses a sizable minority end up over hurdles/fences at some point.
EC1
On a break
not sure about that..an athlete or a horse can only domniate his peers with the best of diet training of the time
its like in 30 years time when running sub 9 second 100 metres might be possible..people will be saying that Bolt wasn't that good because others then can beat his record easily
as pointed out though..his record at Sandown still stands.
I would still think if its possible to put a rating on Mill House of 182..then Arkle has to be 25+ better than him..he was hammering him the more he raced against him..Mill House also won a Whitbread off top weight after Arkle was finished..so its not like he was a donkey in the latter clashes they had. Arkle didn't need handicaps to get high ratings..his runs against Mill House must have put him in 200+ on their own.
I can't see the stumbling block of rating Arkle..bar that if he did put put a 212 on Arkle it might demean the achievement of KS in some way.
On the other hand..he is saying in effect that Arkle was that good he can't actually rate him and believe the figure..so has passed
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
Maybe Mill House was more like Cool Ground than Denman.
just sayin
just sayin
EC1
On a break
not according to the official handicapper he wasn't
i reckon he hasn't put a figure on A to save your feelings Euro
Euronymous
Senior Jockey
Meh, before Pipe came along a lot of trainers were just messing around in fields like Gal says. Stands to reason that the odd poor season for quality would see a real nag win or place in a Gold Cup. I mean, if Sir Rembrandt could who are we to say that Stalbridge Colonist might not have been a 130 plodder who lucked out.
EC1
On a break
but you think anything was a plodder that ran near Arkle..you so biased
if they proved conclusively that Arkle was a 212..you still wouldn't have it..because you cannot accept a horse from the past is that good..you same Gal.
You both use same argument time and time again..but now the official handicapper puts a mark of 182 on Mill House..and you still going on about Cool effin ground :lol:
If AOB had trained Arkle..I wonder what view would have been
trackside528
At the Start
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EC1
On a break
He believes that Mill House, Arkle's contemporary and, initially, his principal rival, was of similar merit to Denman, who is now rated at 182.
maybe he meant Cool Ground
EC1
On a break
we would be discussing how tight Timeform where with the rating..well its clear he was a 222 horse..wtf are Timeform on about
He believes that Mill House, Arkle's contemporary and, initially, his principal rival, was of similar merit to Denman, who is now rated at 182.
maybe he meant Cool Ground
Maybe it's just me - but if it is going to be an official mark - I would like to see something a bit more than that. Similar to 182 could be 180/179/178. Like I said - picking it from out of the sky.
EC1
On a break
like - cast in stone?
come on Gal..when MH hit the scene..very knowledgable people in the game rated him as very special..does all their knowledge mean nothing..were they all wrong?
for a horse who stood in the shadows of Arkle..he still gets talked about as one of the great NH horses..that again tells you he was something special.
there is alot here telling you MH was some animal
so it was before your time..but you are letting that cloud your view imo
Roddy Owen
At the Start
All I can say to you guys is there are not many benefits in getting older,but I had the honour of watching these events, some live and some on b & w TV. Great to hear you still arguing about it all these years on. In the beginning I favoured Mill House and could never see it getting beat. As Arkle triumphed I had to eat humble pie,but recognised a beautiful champ was emerging,and what a champ he proved to be. Thank God we have the films otherwise no one would believe it. Flyingbolt seemed to be the on off genious ,there to flavour the fine dish we were being served.
Grasshopper
Senior Jockey
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- 16,050
A brave move on Phil Smith's part to admit that he was incapable of rating Arkle with any confidence.
Now, if he would just fess-up to those Jumpers still in training, he'll be able to retire with some dignity.
Now, if he would just fess-up to those Jumpers still in training, he'll be able to retire with some dignity.
EC1
On a break
even with the old films and being told by official handicapper that Denman = Mill house...people still don't believe it
all those that think Arkle is overrated are aged 35 and under..[nap]