Princess Flame

Once again Kathy ~ I don't have sidekicks, although I have a great number of friends. Shadow Leader got a damn good telling off for said PM, but the fact is that I wrote it so I must take responsibility, but there was nothing poisonous about it ~ merely an explosion of frustration that I was being screwed over simply for trying to be even handed. How ironic!

Back to the topic though ~ you seem upset at everyone "blackening Brendan's name"; I think you think this thread is about you, when in fact it's about the accountability of trainers and jockeys.
 
Your side kick got a rollocking from trying desperately to stir things up yet again? How sweet. What a great friend she must be.

Rory, I have absolutely nothing to say to you. Not on here, not at Windsor racecourse, not now, not ever.

Just one bit of advice, before you have another outburst due to frustration - for whatever reason, just think before you hit the "send" button. As for those that "evidently" supported your nasty and vindictive comments - well, enough said on this matter I think.
 
I can only apologise for this thread being dragged off topic; it's very selfish of me. There is a suggestion that no enquiry was called ~ does anyone know if that's definitely the case?
 
I'm afraid there was no enquiry - at least not one which was publically announced. I did listen out for it......
 
Originally posted by Shadow Leader@Jun 24 2008, 11:29 PM
I'm afraid there was no enquiry - at least not one which was publically announced. I did listen out for it......
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It probably wouldn't be publicly announced tbh ~ a call for the trainer would be the key. In fairness, given that Kylie Manser isn't very strong or experienced in the saddle, the stewards are likely to accept that in mitigation. I've yet to see tonight's race but there's no doubt that PF was handicapped to win based on the evidence of Chepstow.
 
CHEPSTOW
Tuesday 6th May 2008

The Stewards held an enquiry under Rule 153 into possible interference at the furlong marker. They found that ABSTRACT COLOURS (IRE), ridden by L P Keniry, placed fourth, had interfered with PRINCESS FLAME (GER), ridden by K Manser, placed third, who in turn interfered with BORDER OWL (IRE), ridden by R Hughes, unplaced. They considered the interference was accidental and therefore ordered the placings to remain unaltered.

The Stewards held an enquiry into the running and riding of PRINCESS FLAME (GER) ridden by Kylie Manser and trained by B G Powell, which was slow away, settled in the rear and made rapid progress to finish third beaten three lengths. The Stewards interviewed the rider and the trainer. The rider stated that she was to sit mid division or if possible make the running. She added the mare fell out of the stalls and thereafter niggled her along to join the field; was travelling well and then picked up and ran on through beaten horses, but encountered interference at the furlong marker possibly denying her second place. The trainer confirmed the instructions adding that in the circumstances the rider was unable to carry them out to the letter having been slow away. He added that the mare is one paced and would probably be suited by an extended distance. Having heard their evidence, viewed video recordings of the race, and having received a report from the Veterinary Officer (and observations from the Handicapper) they noted their explanations.
 
Sorry for any confusion Charlie, I was talking about a stewards enquiry tonight.

I didn't hear any calls for the trainer either Rory - and I hear most of the announcements made too.

There were very interesting betting patterns in the race too ~ admittedly, despite the large crowd, it was a very weak betting market in the ring this evening, but the horse in question opened up at 10/1, was backed into 5/1 at one point, when stiffing before the off and returning an SP of 10/1. It was fairly steamed into early doors though, the price changes going through quickly. It all whiffed a little, frankly.
 
Thanks Charlie.

I think most people fail to realise the scope of "explanations noted" and it is in effect a way for the stewards to potentially build up a dossier (as much as they can see that trainers comments are subsequently justified). The prosecution of Michael Wigham and Jamie McKay being a case in point (do read the transcript). If you are trying to pull the wool over the stewards eyes, it's not as easy as you think.

I'm not accusing Brendan Powell of anything here ~ far from it, but Princess Flame was given an injudicious looking ride at Chepstow and the process must be followed for the benefit of the sport as a whole.
 
Originally posted by rorydelargy@Jun 24 2008, 11:50 PM
I think most people fail to realise the scope of "explanations noted" and it is in effect a way for the stewards to potentially build up a dossier (as much as they can see that trainers comments are subsequently justified
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Absolutely. In fact a lot of people don't realise that a jockey is duty bound to report anything, no matter how tiny, to the stipe on duty that they think may have prevented their horse from producing its best performance in a race, and I mean anything. That applies to every horse, not just the favourites - and if a jockey doesn't tell the stipe on their way into the weighing room that, for example, their horse would prefer different going, strictly speaking by the book they can be done for it.
 
There have been some bizarre markets on early week evening racing recently with horses yo-yoing all over the market; more flip flops than BHS! The last at Windsor was a case in point ~ despite the winner of the last being backed from 12/1 to 7/2 there was barely a cheer when it returned.
 
This thread is now making me want to vomit.

Rory now declaring he is not accusing Brendan of any wrong doing. :rolleyes: Make your mind up? I will defend Brendan as he is NOT a crook. However much some of you on here would clearly love to see him (and young Kylie) hauled in front of the stewards I'm afraid that is more a reflection of those accusing him of any wrong doing than anything Brendan has actually done. The Chepstow race was a farce. The stewards looked into it for all the RIGHT reasons but found no wrong doing due to the explanations given and having watched the re run of the race.

It sounds like Kylie ran a cracker tonight so well done to her! :clap:

Courtesy of The Racing Post:

It went the way of the versatile PRINCESS FLAME, who got a sensible ride, and opened her account in this sphere at the sixth time of asking. Always handy, she sensibly kicked for home at the two-furlong marker and showed a very game attitude to fend off her pursuers where it mattered most. She has now won a bumper, hurdle and now on the level, with her connections keen to send her over fences in the autumn in an attempt to complete a clean sweep of the different disciplines. There is probably another race tobe won with her on the Flat, and her versatility as regards underfoot conditions is a notable plus.
 
Please stop this now. Veiled threats, sly references to other forum members and the constant stirring-up of bad blood are unsightly and unnecessary, both on here and by PM.

If you want to sort things out, do it off the forum like adults. Otherwise just don't talk to each other.
 
Originally posted by Shadow Leader@Jun 24 2008, 11:54 PM
Absolutely. In fact a lot of people don't realise that a jockey is duty bound to report anything, no matter how tiny, to the stipe on duty that they think may have prevented their horse from producing its best performance in a race, and I mean anything. That applies to every horse, not just the favourites - and if a jockey doesn't tell the stipe on their way into the weighing room that, for example, their horse would prefer different going, strictly speaking by the book they can be done for it.
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Missed this earlier ~ Barry Hills got done a couple of seasons ago for not reporting that one of his 2yo's was slowly away despite the comment being in the form book!
 
That'd be about right - not sure whether that goes down as shutting the door after the horse has bolted or a desperate attempt to make it look like one [the BHA] is doing something....
 
Was looking for this earlier ~ it's a link to reports of disclipinary enquiries including the Wigham case. The BHA has limited warning off powers but they aren't the old duffers they are often made out to be. I was impressed by the way the case was set out here. There are also a full list of appeals including a successful one by Kylie Manser fwiw. Genuinely interesting reading.

BHA Disciplinary Enquiries
 
In fact, I've gone to the trouble to look it up for you all.

Instruction H.24 states :


Reports must be made by a Rider
- when anything has occurred during any race which might have materially affected the performance of the horse, or
- in Flat races only, when he does not ride out to obtain the best possible placing.

Instruction H24.
- interference leaving the stalls
- interference in running
- horse hanging
- saddle slipped
- equipment failure
- bit slipped through mouth
- lost action

Instruction H24.
- not face blinkers/visor
- not face kickback (AWT)
- never travelling
- not suited by the going
- horse choked/gurgled/swallowed tongue
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Apologies for it being so dis-jointed, it was copied verbatim from BHA documents (and since my paperwork is such a[n] [organised!!!] mess, it took bloody ages!!!!)
 
..you may laugh, but I'm sure enough thickos would!!!!

Of course we all remember the recent(ish) story of the young (Scandinavian?) female apprentice who, when hauled in front of the stewards at Wolverhampton I believe it was, admitted that she was told to jump off at the back - and stay there...
 
Originally posted by Shadow Leader@Jun 25 2008, 01:06 AM
..you may laugh, but I'm sure enough thickos would!!!!

Of course we all remember the recent(ish) story of the young (Scandinavian?) female apprentice who, when hauled in front of the stewards at Wolverhampton I believe it was, admitted that she was told to jump off at the back - and stay there...
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Close ~ she was German and the race was in Germany; another girl rider told the stewards that she was entirely unable to ride out a fancied runner at Wolverhampton because she had suddenly lost her nerve.
 
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