Punchestown Thursday

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Spot on Isinglass. I remember going to Wincanton many years ago to watch Burroughill Lad in action when he was pulled up behind Kildimo beating Dessie at levels (those were the days!!!!)- sadly for me I had missed him in his glory days, but still felt thrilled to see the grand old warrior in action.

So often we are robbed of seeing the true greats through injury and sadly death, in their prime. So to see these two old war horses putting on a great show for their legions of fans was what makes jump racing so endruing.

Notice WOA is 20/1 from 33s for the GC!!!!:)

Isinglass said:
Fortunately racing is not just about the Grade 1, Group 1 races and all the prize money (especially as there is not that much of it about) some of the 'little' races give as much, if not more pleasure to connections and those who enjoy watching racing.

That is why the veteran's races are so popular.

War was fine when he got home last night and ate up again this morning and is sound. Fingers crossed he can remain sound for a season, he enjoys his work and his owners and stable love to see him race.
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numbersix said:
Spot on Isinglass. I remember going to Wincanton many years ago to watch Burroughill Lad in action when he was pulled up behind Kildimo beating Dessie at levels (those were the days!!!!)-

Don't get me started on that lot - I never even saw Dessie race, just used to hero worship him when he was old and curly. :D
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rorydelargy said:
I would dearly love to see WoA back at the top, but today's race was an egg and spoon affair. Let's not go over the top, shall we?
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Precisely Rory.

"Great training performance"???? Hang on, the race was between three broken down horses and a no-hoper - one of them had to win the race, remember!

Much as it is good to see WoA back, let's have a little perspective please, it wasn't an Oscar worthy training performance in that field. I'd like to see him run ok in a race containing horses that haven't all broken down, for starters! I agree with Gal (I think it was) who thinks he is prime material for bouncing off the walls next time although time will tell.

Besides which, I still stand by my sentiments that starting back with the animal after 3 months was too soon. Interesting that the only people that have an issue with that are those who wouldn't know a horse if it kicked them in the teeth - they certainly have no experience caring for, riding, breaking them in and bringing them on, not to mention nursing them back from injury and their comments bear testament to that.
 
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Shadow Leader said:
Precisely Rory.
Interesting that the only people that have an issue with that are those who wouldn't know a horse if it kicked them in the teeth - they certainly have no experience caring for, riding, breaking them in and bringing them on, not to mention nursing them back from injury and their comments bear testament to that.
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Does that include WOA's trainer and vet?

And again I ask...who is going over the top (bar the greatest training performance ever) about the horse...all comments on this thread are just genuine delight to see the horse back on the track in good terms with himself.
 
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I was talking about the comments on here Gal, when I was ripped apart months back for saying he was started too soon even though Morris admitted as such!!!!

I have read at least two comments stating what a wonderful training performance it was - unless of course, the posters meant in simply getting him back on the track. Three of the runners had broken down and one had no chance - again, I state that someone had to win! Bring the horse back to win a race against decent, un-crippled opposition and there is some grounds in saying what a good training performance it was.

It's good to see him back, but I will hold judgement on where he is at formwise until I see him in a proper race. This race wasn't much more than a schooling gallop over fences.
 
Shadow Leader said:
Besides which, I still stand by my sentiments that starting back with the animal after 3 months was too soon.
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I am sure you will join everyone on the forum in celebrating the news in the attached article:

http://www.racingpost.co.uk/news/news.sd?psection=racingpost.co.uk&page=News&category=Top%20Stories&story_uid=998752


Shadow Leader said:
Interesting that the only people that have an issue with that are those who wouldn't know a horse if it kicked them in the teeth - they certainly have no experience caring for, riding, breaking them in and bringing them on and their comments bear testament to that.
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That's a rather unfortunate, and may I say ungracious reaction to what has been a tremendous racing story which the majority of genuine racing fans have found heart warming.

I really do not see what your final sentence has to do with anything, other than being a by now familiar attempt to exclude anybody from the debate who has not worked in racing.

You are entitled to your opinon, and so are people who happen to disagree with you. I have no experience of working with horses, however I do know that Mouse Morris has had a long and fairly distinguished career both in the saddle (two Champion Chases) and training horses (a Champion Chase and Gold Cup) - how many Cheltenham festival winners have you ridden or trained?

Given that his handling of War Of Attrition has resulted in a Grade 2 winning return to the track after serious injury, and, as the RP article testifies, has seen the horse walk out sound the following day, I would tend to give a man with Morris' reputation the benefit of any doubt regarding his methodology applied in the rehabilitation of WoA.

Nobody has disputed that the race on Thursday was a "crock's Gold Cup", and that it remains to be seen how much ability the horse retains, i.e. does he still have the engine.

However Kicking King gave him a race up to the home straight when Geraghty accepted the situation very quickly. If there were any flaws in his leg, jumping two circuits of Punchestown with Kicking King to keep him busy would, I am sure, have found them out.
 
I cant believe the sourness in this thread.I have never won a penny on WOA but I was delighted to see him winning.
 
Agreed Luke, he is not a horse I have warmed to in the past at all, in fact I was hoping Kicking King would win last week.

But nonetheless, you could not but be happy for the horse and connections and give credit to all concerned for getting him back on the track in the first place regardless of who he is taking on or the race type particularly when we have seen so many horses with tendon problems never return.
 
numbersix said:
Nobody has disputed that the race on Thursday was a "crock's Gold Cup", and that it remains to be seen how much ability the horse retains, i.e. does he still have the engine.
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Agreed. It was a pity that the race cut up so badly (13 runners down to 4, I think). We won't know for sure until he has a proper race, but it was good to see him out again.

Maybe he will bounce next time out, but in the meantime they've got something to dream about again. When dreams die there's sod all left!
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It doesn't have to be the Gold Cup or bust with this one-the Ryanair Chase wouldn't be far from the thoughts of his owner.
 
The Ryanair would be brillaint - and I do think that Mouse and connections will be realistic about the horse's targets.
 
Sourness?? I would love to see the horse back, the same as anyone else - but silly talk of superb training performances (which was what I was commenting on) are ridiculous and wide of the mark.

Ok, in a race held now, comprising Erhaab, Benny The Dip and Shaamit, would anyone proclaim it a great training performance to win a contest comprising those three alone? In the grand scheme of things formwise, does it really make much difference who wins the race between three retired horses, or three broken down ones? That is my point - it is good to see WoA back in one piece on the racecourse but the race itself was as wholly inconclusive as a schooling gallop.

So IMO we can keep the plaudits under wraps for a few weeks longer.
 
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Oh, and if anyone could get Benny The Dip to win a race tomorrow I'd be pretty impressed ;)
 
I would consider it a great training performance could Gosden get a win out of Benny The Dip who has been dead for 4 years or if Haggas got a win out of Shammit who has been dead for seven.
 
Ahh the National Hunt is back.

When Shadow gets taken on from all sides due to self righteously talking herself into trouble, it makes me feel warm
 
Shadow Leader said:
So IMO we can keep the plaudits under wraps for a few weeks longer.
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Just getting the horse back is, in itself, worthy of praise. It doesn't all of a sudden make Mouse Morris the best trainer we've ever seen or the feat the greatest training performance in history of course.
 
I would like to see Kicking King retired.

He will struggle to win again.

There is nothing left in him to win at grade level.
 
Totally agree, Powerscourt. Found absolutely nothing again at Punchestown, similar to his second run last year.

He owes them absolutely nothing.
 
I was talking about the comments on here Gal, when I was ripped apart months back for saying he was started too soon even though Morris admitted as such!!!!
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If the trainer admitted as much then i dont see anything wrong with Shadow leader's point
 
trackside528 said:
Just getting the horse back is, in itself, worthy of praise. It doesn't all of a sudden make Mouse Morris the best trainer we've ever seen or the feat the greatest training performance in history of course.
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Agree Trackside, although I don't think anybody said it was the greatest training performance in history. I for one said it was the greatest training performances in many a long year - maybe I am exaggeration a little bit, although I cannot think of too many high profile animals to have come back after such a lay off and bagged a Graded chase on reappearance.

However, Morris certainly deserves a lot of credit for getting the animal back on the track in one piece to win his race - even if it was a "crock's Gold Cup"! I am sure if he had blown up 3 out, and came home 20 lengths adrift of KK we would still be praising the achivement and looking forward to some improvement next time out. To actually win against a race fit rival is some achivement.

To dismiss the performance out of hand as being nothing more than a schooling round, which Shadow Leader has done, seems to ignore the fact that of the 3 chases run at Punchestown that day, WoA's time was actually faster in relative terms than the two novice events. In particular he clocked a quicker average time than Trafford Lad and Rare Bob in the Buck House, even though Davy Russell eased WoA down considerably on the run in, whereas the two novices were hard ridden to the line in a driving finish. To most people's eyes therefore WoA's performance was not a "schooling" session.
 
although I cannot think of too many high profile animals to have come back after such a lay off and bagged a Graded chase on reappearance.
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Well chief did

So i am sure that you will be happy to garland David Pipe with the same accolades
 
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