Racing journalist does his job shock

I'm amazed that people cant see that of course (!) it's performance enhancing....

If they bleed when they work, they can't cope with the stress so they shouldn't be put in that position - not given something that stops them doing it. IMHO that starts to make it a welfare issue, which is even worse !!!
 
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I believe that it is an artificial stimulant, Clive. I do not know the ins and outs about the impact of every medicine on horses, but I do know quite a bit about doping in cycling and have spent a lot of time over the past few months on learning about other sports.

The difference between bleeding and diabetes is that bleeding affects the performance when the body is put under stress by exercise. Diabetes is there all the time. Furthermore, anti-bleeding medication affects the horse's performance as it artificially raises a threshold which is putting a physiological restriction on the performance of the horse.

So a horse is prone to bleeding. A cyclist has an abnormally low red blood cell count. A footballer runs out of energy at the end of a match. A tennis player is prone to arthritis in his elbow. Do we allow TA, EPO, nandrolone and HGH? I say "no". I can understand people who say "yes".

However what I cannot understand is how people sign up to play under the rules of the UCI, IAAF, FIFA, BHA, etc. Yet still break the rules. I assume for instance, that Nicky Henderson would have accepted the prize money had Moonlit Path's TA dose been undetected and the horse had won the race.
 
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Ok. Fair enough

On the rule breaking by nh, dont want to get chippy or paranoid about such things ( as many can do) but if it had been Nichols or lets say m pipe. Or lets imagine rod simpson ?

Just as in life outrage depends on how far the face fits

I agree about the rules. Whether they should bé changed is a diffferent matter maybe
 
I think we are aligned. Particularly on the Nicky Henderson issue....here is what I posted on an earlier thread about Binocular and other cases. You may have been off the forum in a huff and may have missed it.

I find it very interesting that the same horse who made a miraculous recovery a few years ago to win a Champion Hurdle after being moved abroad for treatment, was pulled out of the race the following year because steroids hadn't cleared in time. Of course we were told that this was for a superficial reason (to clear spots around his neck) but I find it very similar to Lance Armstrong getting a cert to clear saddle sores.

And then we have his employment of a vet who was struck off for 10 years. It is strange that a vet would take risks like that.

And the vet in question, James Main, has hinted that giving Moonlit Path a "pre-race check" was actually seen as a euphamism for treating a horse pre-race with substances including tranexamic acid, and that he did this for more than one of his "training clients" regularly.

And then we have the Heather Royal case, where another horse tested positive for a glucocortisoid.

At the very best, we can say that Tricky Nicky is a bit thick, and that he doesn't monitor his vets and keep medical records very well. I still think that he has enough grey areas in his history to merit a discussion, but that is probably not a popular opinion. He certainly did a good job of portraying the "thick country gentleman" image when the cases came out in 09/10/11.
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Sportsman found guilty for doping comes back from ban and produces record-breaking performance at his sport's biggest event.

Any other sport, our eyes would be rolling out the door.
 
Ha - I almost corrected myself on that, but then I thought barely anyone gets caught in the first place in soccer.
 
...still waiting for any good reason why jumpers (which is the case in point here) should not be treated
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The most important reason has already mentioned, i.e. the welfare aspect. Another is that breeders look at the success of the progeny when choosing sires for their mares, which makes it important that horses race each other under equal conditions.

Tanlic's view is one that finds wide acceptance in the US but not in Europe. Similar differences of attitude arise between the US and Europe with regard to food, eg growth hormones and gmo crops are permitted in US food production but not here.

As Bar says, the European racing authorities have decided on a strict approach to the use of medication on racehorses and all trainers are well aware of it.
 
Bully, the vet was only banned for 10 months according to that blog. I thought it was 10 years as well but he's back as Newbury's on course vet.

I'm with most people here - whether it is or isn't performance enhancing is a moot point. The rules state you can;t do it so to blatantly ignore it is getting an advantage on others and is morally and fundamentally wrong, whether its Nicholls, Henderson, Mullins or anyone else.

Furthermore, are we really comfortable with the Champion trainer elect saying things like this: Henderson said in evidence that he “did not think that we had administered anything terribly illegal and the horse had not exactly won the race”. Cos frankly its bollox. He knew it was wrong, his vet knew it was wrong, his assistants knew it was wrong…. If it wasn’t “terribly illegal” (What kind of nonsense is that?!) why hide it? Because it was illegal Nicky? Henderson annoys me because he is the first to question everyone else, primarily race planners but the minute the spotlight is on him he expects us to fall for the naïve card? Its not his job to decide what is illegal or not… Perhaps Nicky thought he was ok because of the position his vet held…..

The sweeping under the carpet by the BHA is a different issue but equally wrong imo.
 
The post above is so naive it's laughable. Trainers have used the medicine in question for years

Nicky had the right to be asking the BHA why me? Their answer would of course be you were caught.

The BHA are a British Upper Crust, "we can't have that" who the majority of trainers disagree with on this particular medicine.

I know nothing about what really went on regarding the vet and Nicky Henderson for all I know Nicky told him to use it or Nicky totaaly trusted him and grabbed him by the throat when he found out and said you stupid c*** look at the mess you have gotten me into.

What I do know for certain is the BHA know much more about these cases than they will ever say in public because they can't without hard evidence. Nothing gets past them but in many many cases their hands are tied.

What is certain is when they are lenient with someone there are good reasons for it and one of them is they know the actual truth which very seldom comes out for legal reasons
 
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I doubt if half the members of the BHA even knew what tranexamic acid was until they pulled Nicky up for it.
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Tanlic said:
What I do know for certain is the BHA know much more about these cases than they will ever say in public because they can't without hard evidence. Nothing gets past them but in many many cases their hands are tied.
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:confused:
 
To a certain extent there's some truth in what Tanlic says. There are plenty of persistent rumours about certain individuals which penetrate as far as High Holborn, but without someone being prepared to stand up and make a statement, there's little the regulators can do. Not necessarily talking doping btw, but there are other ways to breach the Rules of Racing.

Mind you, I don't know about the British Upper Crust - the BHA is run by Aussies and business analysts these days! The old guard Jockey Club relics are ever fewer and farther between.
 
Tanlic said:
The post above is so naive it's laughable. Trainers have used the medicine in question for years

Nicky had the right to be asking the BHA why me? Their answer would of course be you were caught.

The BHA are a British Upper Crust, "we can't have that" who the majority of trainers disagree with on this particular medicine.
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Casting this as upper crust BHA versus man of the people Nicky Henderson is deranged. The horse in question was owned by the Queen herself, and Henderson's father was one of the grandees of racing.


Tanlic said:
I know nothing about what really went on regarding the vet and Nicky Henderson for all I know Nicky told him to use it or Nicky totaaly trusted him and grabbed him by the throat when he found out and said you stupid c*** look at the mess you have gotten me into.
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I don't claim to know what really went on either but even the most innocent spin on it makes Henderson look negligent to an implausible degree for somebody in charge of an important business.


What I do know for certain is the BHA know much more about these cases than they will ever say in public because they can't without hard evidence. Nothing gets past them but in many many cases their hands are tied.
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It wouldn't surprise me if plenty of trainers have been spoken to off the record and told that they are being watched, and it wouldn't surprise me to hear that is why the remarkable runs of some trainers ended quite suddenly.

On the other hand the idea that "nothing gets past them" is quaint. One of the lessons from drug scandals in other sports is that those who really want to can avoid detection. In racing, it seems, they don't even have to try all that hard. NH's horses, after all, had been getting these injections for years without anyone getting caught and according to you so were plenty of horses in other stables.


What is certain is when they are lenient with someone there are good reasons for it and one of them is they know the actual truth which very seldom comes out for legal reasons
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Given the highly place people associated with the Henderson stable I couldn't possibly comment.
 
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I am sure their are high profile trainers training horses with the aid of drugs that lessen the chance of horses bursting blood vessels, masking pain etc and allowing trainers to push horses harder than they could normally. I don't go along with the opinion that Tanlic seems to be expressing that because 'they're all at it' that it's not cheating.
 
It wouldn't surprise me to be told that plenty of trainers have been spoken to off the record and told that their every move is being watched, and it wouldn't surprise me to hear that is why the remarkable runs of some trainers ended quite suddenly.
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One 'plump' trainer in particular.
 
And as with M Pipe years ago, quite a few like to spread these rumours without a shred of evidence. Nothing more to it than envy and parochialism most of the time

I think it's a dangerous and pretty vile game myself.

And it the "plump" trainer that I and others are thinking of too. Very consistent striker ate over last five years. Rule that out
 
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Sheikh said:
I am sure their are high profile trainers training horses with the aid of drugs that lessen the chance of horses bursting blood vessels, masking pain etc and allowing trainers to push horses harder than they could normally. I don't go along with the opinion that Tanlic seems to be expressing that because 'they're all at it' that it's not cheating.
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I don't think that at all I just feel it would be fairer to owners if they were allowed to treat horses they had spent their hard earned cash on. I think on this particular medicine most trainers feel the same way.

You're citing drugs that don't belong in this debate I am not talking about pain killers just a drug used throughout the world by women to prevent excessive bleeding with no side affects that I am aware of...Haven't seen many housewives sprinting round the supermarket after taking it....It just seems daft to me.
 
Tanlic, would you advocate allowing coke to be adminstered as a medicine to jockeys? It's not performance-enhancing (unless you mean in terms of talking shite endlessly), and it would help them keep the weight-off.

In fact, I might actually watch a Flat race where the horses were all wired on Bute, and the jocks were charlied out their boxes. Even better if they were on trips.

Do the BHA have an online Helpful Suggestions box??
 
You are citing the use of a drug that allows a horse that bleeds the ability to run faster than it would if it was not on the drug.
People shouldn't get involved in racehorse ownership if they aren't aware of the many pitfalls.
 
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