It was very fast ground indeed yesterday - apart from Ascot I doubt any Grade 1 course would want to be as fast as Newmarket was yesterday for their top races .
Rainbow View
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It was very fast ground indeed yesterday - apart from Ascot I doubt any Grade 1 course would want to be as fast as Newmarket was yesterday for their top races .
EC1
On a break
how are you judging how fast it was Ardross?
Shadow Leader
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The going was hard in the carpark then Ardross?
rorydelargy
At the Start
Saucer of milk etc etc........
The problem with a time based approach to analysing ground conditions is that on over-fast ground, horses don't run correspondingly faster as few will properly let themselves down. We had this debate last year when New Approach was beaten easily in the Irish 2000 and Jim Bolger blamed the lightning fast ground. The time analysts "proved" that the ground wasn't really that fast and poo-pooed the idea of NA ever winning another group race. Time, if you excuse the pun, justified Bolger's opinion (if not his reputation with punters) and it's very likely that the same will happen with Rainbow View.
EC1
On a break
horses that act on fast ground..let themselves down on it..and display times that fit..like Perfolia did...thats why fast ground horses win on fast ground and slow ground horses don't 
i've demonstrated what a fast ground time is really like at Newmarket...the course is so overwatered these days that really fast ground never materialises...except in the mind of the excuse maker.
I can't really do a deal more as its clear that facts don't really pull much weight when discussing matters
its real easy to pass a view with nowt to back it up yer know
Ardross..I've been to a few race meetings..but I've never been able to judge the ground just on my appearing there
...do you carry a going stick?
i've demonstrated what a fast ground time is really like at Newmarket...the course is so overwatered these days that really fast ground never materialises...except in the mind of the excuse maker.
I can't really do a deal more as its clear that facts don't really pull much weight when discussing matters
its real easy to pass a view with nowt to back it up yer know
Ardross..I've been to a few race meetings..but I've never been able to judge the ground just on my appearing there
...do you carry a going stick?
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EC1
On a break
forgot to add
i give up on this one
it were really fast ground at newmarket...how do I know?...a little bird told me
i give up on this one
it were really fast ground at newmarket...how do I know?...a little bird told me
Desert Orchid
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I always thought big feet meant... oh wait, she's a filly...
Seriously, though, I thought big feet meant a horse could cope better with softer ground, not necessarily that it liked it (I can imagine Phil Bull whirling in his grave at the thought of horses liking anything) whereas small feet are more likely to get stuck.
I don't think it's hard to imagine a horse with big feet also being able to stride out well on fast ground.
Seriously, though, I thought big feet meant a horse could cope better with softer ground, not necessarily that it liked it (I can imagine Phil Bull whirling in his grave at the thought of horses liking anything) whereas small feet are more likely to get stuck.
I don't think it's hard to imagine a horse with big feet also being able to stride out well on fast ground.
endevour269
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Here is old sceptical me been around racing and ownership (in a very small way)i wish i had a pound every time a trainer told me top class horses will win on any ground and i cant help feeling rainbow view did not have the greatest 1000 guineas field to beat.
mrussell
At the Start
If she didn't like the ground, will she be affected by the memory when she next races? Or do horses just live in the present?
(... yes, yes, don't we all!
)
(... yes, yes, don't we all!
)
forgot to add
i give up on this one
it were really fast ground at newmarket...how do I know?...a little bird told me
:lol: My impression was that it was lightning quick on Sunday, but that was just my impression. You may be right. Gosden reckons his son said it was like a scene from the wild west with dust flying up behind them. I guess they would say this. But the evidence of my eyes rather than times was that RV looked like a cat on a hot tin roof... I'm prepared to forgive her this one.
The career of Aspen Darlin's is apparently over after breaking down in the same race.
Desert Orchid
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If she didn't like the ground, will she be affected by the memory when she next races? Or do horses just live in the present?
(... yes, yes, don't we all!
The Dog Whisperer says animals live in the present - at least dogs do - but you'd have to believe they were pretty dumb creatures if they didn't recall bad experiences. Horseracing pundits will often say the horse will go on it (an unfavoured surface) once but won't do it again if they find the experience bad enough.
mrussell
At the Start
Do you think, DO, that just being turned out to race again, when the last experience was painful, has much effect in itself?
Difficult to quantify isn't it. A bad experience can leave its mark though. Goldfish forget much more quickly. Racing those could be a problem though... fast going would definitely be out!
endevour269
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Can we conlude from all we have heard in the last few days rainbow view will not run on firm ground again,pity all the experts did not know this before the race.
mrussell
At the Start
Desert Orchid
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I'm not sure I'm qualified to answer but wasn't it the case that the 'great' French trainer François Boutin doped his horses after a hard race so they'd forget it?
mrussell
At the Start
Good point ... if it was available to know, I guess.
In the light of what he's said since the race, Gosden makes me wonder and leaves me confused. I think he should be an expert, himself?
EC1
On a break
she won't win on Good if she couldn't act on Sunday..thats for sure...needs good/soft
if that is the real reason for the loss of course
which I don't really believe
if that is the real reason for the loss of course
which I don't really believe
EC1
On a break
she has yet to run on firm ground
she doesn't act on fast ground..not firm..two totally different animals
its funny..coz she didn't have an issue last year
its also odd that one day after Delegator...who must have Good ground..ran on similar ground and ran his best ever race
funny how a Good ground horse like Delegator ran his best race on lightning quick ground..mmm...wonder whats happening here
the power of suggestion is so alive on this thread...folk soon believe stuff if its spoon fed enough
rorydelargy
At the Start
You're in danger of pissing the entire forum off again with your "I'm right and you're all not so much wrong as totally deluded" attitude EC1; I thought we'd moved past that. I do hope so.
My observations were based on :
1. The numerous withdrawals even of horses with form on good to firm
2. Gosden's son's observations were entirely accurate . Loads of dust was kicked up - it looked like very dry fast ground.
3. Walking right close down by the rail , whilst not in any way an exact science tends to give you some idea of what the ground is like as watering can spray over. It was very firm down there .
I accept that i did not have my own personal going stick and walk the track with it. The above factors however suggest that it is more likely than not that the ground was firm .
EC1
On a break
i'm beyond caring what anyone thinks tbh Rory
the only time I get a reply on here its normally negative..bar a couple of folk
now I have you talking to me like a headmaster talking to a pupil
you know.. I see lots of people here be pig ignorant...and not ONCE do I see anyone say bugger all like you have to me above
I'll take a break again..I don't like intruding tbh
the only time I get a reply on here its normally negative..bar a couple of folk
now I have you talking to me like a headmaster talking to a pupil
you know.. I see lots of people here be pig ignorant...and not ONCE do I see anyone say bugger all like you have to me above
I'll take a break again..I don't like intruding tbh