Road To The Champion Hurdle

Don't be too hard on us Steve! I think anyone could be forgiven for not expecting Punjabi to win on most peoples reading of the form, but that is not to discredit your own achievement in putting him up. He has clearly improved beyond most peoples expectations and is staying the trip really well nowadays. If he wasn't given enough credit for being third as a five year old, maybe thats because the winner was a five year old too! I agree with you about the standard of the race, top class, although I wouldn't allow Binocular extra merit for sweating as he always does it.
 
If the Champion Hurdle was run tomorrow, all horses fit and well, ground good to soft....what price would Hurricane Fly slot in with Punjabi, Binocular and Celestial Halo?
 
Thanks trackside. It's a measure of my tips that Hills subsequently pushed him out further to 33s... I took suitable opportunity to punish them for that though!
 
Galileo said:
If the Champion Hurdle was run tomorrow, all horses fit and well, ground good to soft....what price would Hurricane Fly slot in with Punjabi, Binocular and Celestial Halo?
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Out of these I'd be backing Binocular next year. He stayed better than I thought and has more gears than the others. Maybe HF will develop into something powerful next season, but I wouldn't have expected him to figure against these at the moment.
 
For what it's worth, I bumped into Tony McCoy and Ruby in 21 Club on Friday night. Very little chance to chat with Ruby although he did ask how the old boy was. More chat with tony though. he was gutted with Binocular. Said he wasn't fit and he would have won well if he had been. I'll be backing him antipost before the start of next season.

I congratulated him on ride of the week, to which he commented that Wichita is just slow. I asked if he would make a national horse next year to which he responded simply "No". Then we got chatting about the National and his dream to win it which he said was unlikely to happen. I said he missed his chance with Clan Royal but he said Blowing Wind was his missed opportunity. Said he was cantering. Then Ruby pulled him off to the dancefloor!!

I must say though that there were plenty of people dragging off him on Friday night and he had a word to say to all of them. Although he did get frustrated at one stage when he said to me " the only f*cking reason I'm here is coz Ruby said he'd be here........so where the hell is he", just before Ruby came around the corner to say hello!!
 
Great conversation Cantoris. I`m staggered that AP said Bin was unfit though. It`s a hell of a statement. I backed him heavily but Nicky usually has them well fit? Quite unbelievable really.
 
He looked fit enough to me too. He sweated up beforehand which may have taken the edge off. But he very nearly got there and past the line probably had the other two, so I wouldn't hang too much on this reported conversation interesting as it may be... people say things off the cuff... talk is cheap.
 
True but Henderson said AP had thought he had taken a blow and perhaps he wasn't as fit as he thought straight after the race .

The horse was never going like the winner when he moved to slipstream Ruby , that effortless cruising on the bridle wasn't there at any stage . I never thought he was going to go by them from the home turn .

I think suny is right by the way RB was given an OR of 170 but he was given as high as 173 RPR for his valiant Tote Gold Trophy defeat.
 
SteveM said:
I wouldn't hang too much on this reported conversation interesting as it may be... people say things off the cuff... talk is cheap.
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That could be very true but he has no reason to lie to me so I'll take it at face value. Also, knowing what I know about the condition of Brave Inca when he won the 2006 Champion Hurdle, it is not impossible for a horse to win or run well in these championship races when they are not at their best!! Just because he looks ok doesn't mean he is ok.
 
Cantoris said:
That could be very true but he has no reason to lie to me so I'll take it at face value. Also, knowing what I know about the condition of Brave Inca when he won the 2006 Champion Hurdle, it is not impossible for a horse to win or run well in these championship races when they are not at their best!! Just because he looks ok doesn't mean he is ok.
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I didn’t mean to suggest he lied, or that you reported anything other than he said, but sometimes judgement can be tinged with thoughts of what might have been. If Binocular was off peak fitness it wasn’t by too much, he was certainly fit enough to get by them in a few more strides.

Still some jockeys aren’t averse to messing with the truth. I love the story about Piggott who when asked about his chances in the next race told the grateful enquirer it was a sure thing. A minute later he told another man who had asked the same question he had no chance. When a third party who had overhead both replies asked the great man why he told one man one thing and the other the opposite, Piggott replied “after the race one of those will be calling me a good judge!”


 
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SteveM said:
I didn’t mean to suggest he lied, or that you reported anything other than he said, but sometimes judgement can be tinged with thoughts of what might have been. If Binocular was off peak fitness it wasn’t by too much, he was certainly fit enough to get by them in a few more strides.

Still some jockeys aren’t averse to messing with the truth. I love the story about Piggott who when asked about his chances in the next race told the grateful enquirer it was a sure thing. A minute later he told another man who had asked the same question he had no chance. When a third party who had overhead both replies asked the great man why he told one man one thing and the other the opposite, Piggott replied “after the race one of those will be calling me a good judge!”
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I remember saying at the time of his gallop when the trainer was saying he needed it badly, that it was a worry that a horse needed a gallop so badly so close to the race particularly when it is well documented that he had a break since Ascot, held up by the snow and is a stuffy horse.
 
On a related note I wonder whether Starluck didn't stay or whether he equally suffered from a lack of a prep race .
 
I don't think we can say that a horse that was not fully fit all but won the Champion Hurdle. He may be a bit better than he showed us and as I say the sweating up may have taken the edge off. But unfit horses simply cannot compete at this level, however good they may be, if not fit.
 
Maybe it did, maybe it didn't. No horse runs to its absolute best when lathering up and usually it would be enough of a sign to back something else. Nevertheless, I still think this is a more plausible explanation for him not winning than not being fit, considering he came up the hill as well as anything else in the race.
 
Steve, the horse does it every time it runs. Some horses do. You can't really use that as an excuse that he didn't win when he was in exactly the same condition every time he posted all the impressive performances!
 
It's no secret that the section of the Lambourn Downs where NH's gallops are were particularly badly affected by the snow and bad weather in general - they are quite high and pretty exposed. He was in a right tizz for several weeks before the Festival trying to get enough work into the hroses which had all slipped back a bit at a crucial time, Having said which, Punjabi was fit enough! - but he stays a bit further and the ground was marginally in his favour
 
On a related note I wonder whether Starluck didn't stay or whether he equally suffered from a lack of a prep race .
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probably the track didnt suit watch him when he returns to a flat track like aintree
 
Shadow Leader said:
Steve, the horse does it every time it runs. Some horses do. You can't really use that as an excuse that he didn't win when he was in exactly the same condition every time he posted all the impressive performances!
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I'm not using it as an excuse for him not winning. He almost did. However sweating is a sure sign that a horse will not perform quite as well as when it doesn't and it's not true that he sweats literally every time he runs. However, what I am saying is that a bit of lathering up usually takes the edge off a horse and this is more plausible to me than him not being fit.

However, I think Binocular pretty much ran his race, although he may be a little unlucky as his gear changes were not razor sharp this time.
 
It is true that the horse sweats up like that every time he runs. As I said, how can you use him lathering up as an excuse for him not to perform his best when he has performed his best when he has also lathered up? It's what the animal does.
 
I think he has performed to close to his best. Perhaps he could have been a bit sharper through the gears. He as good as won anyway, so I'm not offering an excuse for him. But sweating up seems more plausible to me than him being unfit for being a fraction off his best.

All horses sweat to some extent, he was clearly in a worse state than usual.
 
I'm getting a headache from banging my head against this brick wall Steve - as I (and others) have said to you quite a few times now, Binocular always sweats up badly at the races.

But since it's really not sinking in and you're still saying it stopped him from performing his best I won't bother again. Maybe you should keep an eye out for whether or not he is sweating to such an extent in future - you might just be surprised.
 
I heard you loud and clear the first half a dozen times there really is no need to keep repeating yourself. You are banging your head against a wall out of choice.
 
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