Road to the Epsom Derby 2011

Television can't do justice to that initial climb. You can only fully appreciate how stiff it is by seeing it for yourself and the best view is from the stands at Epsom. I have no doubt that the Derby course represents a real test of stamina, more so than, for example, The Curragh's 12f.

Nice to hear from you, DO.
 
No, but there's also a very significant difference between the standard times for the two courses. I've no doubt Epsom is the stiffer and considerably so.
 
Sheikh said:
Ok but that goes against the traditional view and mine but it doesn't mean your wrong.
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It's just my opinion. I remember there was a lot of discussion about it in 1984 when El Gran Senor ran in the Irish Derby after running like a blatant non-stayer at Epsom. I'm pretty sure that Phil Bull's view was that Epsom was the stiffer test of the two and he largely accepted the standard times argument. Again, it doesn't mean he was right although El Gran Senor of course won fairly comfortably at The Curragh. There was criticism, however, of Steve Cauthen (who rode Rainbow Quest) in that he had failed to make it a sufficient test of the favourite's stamina.
 
That was Eddery at his all-time worst though, looking round like he had won it and letting Secreto steal the momentum.
They often say that the Irish Derby takes a lot of getting due to a more consistent fast pace, wide and galloping.
However, although Epsom is a totally different sort of course, the course is nevertheless stamina sapping due to its physical demands.
 
El Gran Senors pacemaker set a slow pace which helped him get the distance at The Curragh.
The likes of Benny The Dip got away with 12 furlongs at Epsom -he would have needed a taxi to get it at The Curragh.
 
SteveM said:
That was Eddery at his all-time worst though, looking round like he had won it and letting Secreto steal the momentum.
They often say that the Irish Derby takes a lot of getting due to a more consistent fast pace, wide and galloping.
However, although Epsom is a totally different sort of course, the course is nevertheless stamina sapping due to its physical demands.
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I think your on point there. Epsom is energy sapping as horses particularly big awkward types are having to adjust to the contours and undulations constantly. For a well balanced horses this is obviously less strenuous.
The Curragh is a truer run gallop.
 
It's a non argument nowadays anyway. It's a race where half the runners are from the same stable and the other half are shite. Who cares.
 
The Irish Derby has become almost a non-event. A non stayer won it last year followed by an animal who needs two miles followed by another non stayer. All from the same yard.
 
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Sheikh said:
Like all races it has good years and not so good years. The ratings those horses achieved (last year and the year before) over a variety of distances speak for themselves. Frozen Fire's year was indeed a weak renewal. Epsoms 2nd and third where unable to win a messy race.

2000
Sinndar
2001
Galileo
2002
High Chaparral
2003
Alamshar
2004
Grey Swallow
2005
Hurricane Run
2006
Dylan Thomas
2007
Soldier of Fortune
2008
Frozen Fire
2009
Fame and Glory
2010
Cape Blanco
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...a decent enough list, when all's said and done.
 
It's a bit reliant on a small section of stables/owners though. So if Oxx/Aga Khan and Ballydoyle have a relatively poor bunch of 3yo's the race suffers.
 
Gamla Stan said:
Sir Percy's Derby was basically a handicap.
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Obviously the winner was below average but there was a bunch of decent animals in that race - it was probably run a bit soon in the careers of some (Dylan Thomas, Papal Bull) and on the wrong ground for others (Spetimus)
 
Euronymous said:
It's a bit reliant on a small section of stables/owners though. So if Oxx/Aga Khan and Ballydoyle have a relatively poor bunch of 3yo's the race suffers.
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I think if there is a weakish year in general the race suffers. I also think the big stables in Ireland the UK and France tend to control all the various Derby's. Also I agree it's not easy on the eye watching all the usual Colours representing Ballydoyle runners but those colours represent a wider range of owners than just Magnier, Tabor and Smith under the Coolmore umbrella.
 
As i managed to pick out the derby winner when starting this thread i thought i'd point out that my other original derby tip, Farrh, is running in the 3.10 at newmarket. His form hasn't really worked out but for sentimental reasons i'm having a small bet on him.
 
Aragorn said:
As i managed to pick out the derby winner when starting this thread i thought i'd point out that my other original derby tip, Farrh, is running in the 3.10 at newmarket. His form hasn't really worked out but for sentimental reasons i'm having a small bet on him.
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rated 90 on a large distance maiden win at headquarters..looked good..had a bit on..superb thread for you is this i think :cool:
 
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