Sam Thomas

Galileo said:
Err they do it because they love the job while those at the top (Sam Thomas) get extremely well paid for it. No one forces them into that profession.
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they do NOT get extremely well paid for it who told you that

COPMPARE THEIR WAGES TO FOOTBALL PLAYERS WHO ROLL ON THE FLOOR IN AGONY AFTER A TAP ON THE LEG WHEN I have seen JUMPS JOCKEYS WITH BONES PROTRUDING FROM THEIR ARM TRYING TO TELL THE AMBULANCE MEN THEY ARE OKAY IN FEAR OF MISSING THEIR NEXT RIDE.



FLAT JOCKS GET ALL SORTS OF INCENTIVES BUT JUMPS JOCKS DONT; AND APART FROM THE VERY FEW AT THE TOP MOST STRUGGLE TO MAKE A LIVING.
 
£120,000 before tax Gareth

David is right that apart from the top jocks riding every day that many struggle to make a living though.

I would class Sam as one of the top jocks, he would be having 20 rides a week easily, which would be around £2500 before tax, which is hardly a low income, and would be on par with most footballers, non premiership.
 
The only additional incentive that flat jockeys get that I can see is the stallion nominations where applicable.

If our jockey's are that poorly off do what James Reveley, Sam Waley-Cohen (as an amateur), Philip Carberry and David Dunsdon (as an amateur) have done and ride for the better prize money abroad.
 
Amatuer's don't get prize money Martin, well not officially, thats not to say the owners didn't look after them.

Given David Dunsdon, Carberry and Wahey-Cohen were born into money, I doubt money is relevant there.
 
I know that they don't get prize money but they're examples of British and Irish jump jockeys who are thinking outside the traditional routes open to jockeys in these parts.

I doubt it's relevant to most jockeys if it's not relevant to Carberry. If a jockey is good enough he can ride wherever he wants - if jockeys are only willing to travel locally (say Scotland) they'll only get rides in the North and no other opportunities will arise.

Take Tony McCoy - did he start out in pony races and then just walk into the McManus and Pipe jobs? No he worked hard at what he did and started in Ireland before moving to the UK. If a jockey is good enough then the opportunities will come along, it's then up to them to take them.

Philip Carberry clearly has a great relationship with JP Senechal and his main trainer Monsieur Gallorini and they've kept getting him to come back to ride their top horses (Musica Bella, Louping D'Ainay, Princesse D'Anjou) and I'd be pretty sure that his cut of the prize money for the two GS De Paris' he's won on the last named is greater than Sam Thomas will have won for taking the Gold Cup on Denman.
 
I wasn't on about the types of jobs they have Martin, the way you worded your comment was that these amatuer's went abroad to ride for better prize money, when they don't get prize money.

Undoubtedly jockeys have to work their way up but certain jockeys from racing families will certainly have a good foot on the ladder, whilst some i.e McCoy have to work ten times harder.

Phillip Carberry as an amatuer would not get a cut of the prize money he earns off any horses, unless the owner decided to pay him a taxable bonus. No amatuer gets official prize money or riding fee's.
 
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I was referring to the top jockeys of course.....Sam Thomas is very well paid. Might he have a retainer as well with Paul N?

And as for comparing them to footballers...footballers get a much tougher time from the press (not just a single paper) and the crowds at matches.

Either way no one forced a jockey (or footballer) into their profession.
 
You misunderstand me, redhead - the phrase is hardly specifically restricted to one; ie just because I wouldn't use x if they were the last one on the bench doesn't mean I'm using a through w, y and z.

Don't worry, plenty meet the criteria to go on such a list.
 
Hey has no-one mentioned Sam's double at Wincanton this afternoon! Come on guys....praise where praise is due etc....
 
rorydelargy said:
If Philip Carberry is a top class jockey (and I'm neutral on the issue), then he must ride a hell of a lot of non triers to have such a poor strike rate.
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A friend of mine once told me that "all jockeys stop horses, the best don´t get caught". He´s got one big gig and is making a great success of it, give him the right ammo (ie. Sublimity, Princesse D etc.) and he´ll get the job done as much as any other rider.
 
Colin Phillips said:
I fancy there may be a wee bit of exaggeration and generalisation in that post, David.

Artistic licence I s'pose!
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no exageration at all I have seen two broken wrists and a broken arm attempted to be hidden by jockeys; one a top one who rode in the next two races after he had strapped it a chepstow; though it was about 15 years ago. Remember being out on the course I see things you in the stands and at home do not...quite often me who picks up the jockeys off the floor or sits with an injured horse until the vet arrives.
Josef vana the famous czech trainer/jockey two years ago rode in the velka with a broken wrist and it was well known.
no tears or am drams they just get on with it.
 
dave dent said:
no exageration at all I have seen two broken wrists and a broken arm attempted to be hidden by jockeys; one a top one who rode in the next two races after he had strapped it a chepstow; though it was about 15 years ago. Remember being out on the course I see things you in the stands and at home do not...quite often me who picks up the jockeys off the floor or sits with an injured horse until the vet arrives.
Josef vana the famous czech trainer/jockey two years ago rode in the velka with a broken wrist and it was well known.
no tears or am drams they just get on with it.
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I still don't see your point. Because of this they cannot be critised?
 
Galileo said:
I was referring to the top jockeys of course.....Sam Thomas is very well paid. Might he have a retainer as well with Paul N?

And as for comparing them to footballers...footballers get a much tougher time from the press (not just a single paper) and the crowds at matches.

Either way no one forced a jockey (or footballer) into their profession.
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Nobody forces anyone to do anything; nobody forces you to have a bet and then whine about bad jockeys losing you money.
This sits very uncomfortably it me as i have spent most of the last twenty years being friends with dedicated but struggling jumps jockeys and know it's hard; ITS THINGS LIKE THEY CAN'T GET MORTGAGES EVEN IF THEY ARE THE TOP OF THE PROFESSION sometimes. Then my friend RICHARD DAVIES WAS KLLED AT SOUTHWELL; andno another friend peter gehm is in a wheelchair for the rest of his life from an accident on the gallops. Okay its a risk they all take; but a bit of respect for that courage wouldnt go amiss here.
you also forget the vast majoity of jump jockeys come though the hunting and point to point field and are not paid. ITS A DAMN HARD LIFE BUT MOST DO IT FOR THE LOVE OF THE HORSES AND THE SPORT AND WE SHOULD RECOGNISE THAT AND AS PUNTERS AND FANS OF THE SPORT NOT BEGRUDGE THEM WHEN FINALLY THEY CAN MAKE A RESPECTABLE WAGE...WHICH REMEMBER IS ONLY LIKELY TO BE FOR TEN YEARS OR SO; AND IF INJUIES ARE INVOLVED OFTEN THEY HAVE TO START ALL OVER AGAIN...Christian williams for example.

THESE MEN AND WOMEN ARE THE LAST GLADIATORS AND IN A TIME OF HEALTH AND SAFETY PC BULL ITS WORTH REMEMBERING THAT. MAYBE NEXT TIME YOU ARE AT A JUMPS MEETNG GO AND STAND BY A FENCE AND FORGET THE PUNTNG FOR FIVE MINUTES AND BEHOLD WHAT THEY DO.

IN THE MEANTIME HERE IS A REMINDER.

and also apt to recall the words of W B Yeats; which sturred me since childhood to follow
AT GALWAY RACES

by: W. B. Yeats (1865-1939)

HERE where the course is,
Delight makes all of the one mind,
The riders upon the galloping horses,
The crowd that closes in behind:
We, too, had good attendance once,
Hearers and hearteners of the work;
Aye, horsemen for companions,
Before the merchant and the clerk
Breathed on the world with timid breath.
Sing on: somewhere at some new moon,
We'll learn that sleeping is not death,
Hearing the whole earth change its tune,
Its flesh being wild, and it again
Crying aloud as the racecourse is,
And we find hearteners among men
That ride upon horses.


well frankly it sickens me that racing is now being run by a bunch of gutless public shoolboys who havent the courage to stand by the jockeys and allow them to be grilled by a socialist police state for the benefit of mug punters with conspiracy theories and even offer some on the altar. Bring back Brad I say....
 

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Dave - the Duke of Alburquerque (sp?) rode in the National with a broken wrist and has done it with a dodgy shoulder (broken or dislocated). Brave or stupid? These jockeys will fall into the same category as the Iron Duke.
 
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