Sam Waley-Cohen
- Thread starter betsmate
- Start date
At least he knows what AV is. I suspect many jockeys wouldnt have a clue. Stiill he wouldnt get Ken livingstones vote would he?
Hes "living the dream" but i would have to be paid a bloody fortune to do what he does for sod all. I think NH jockeys are nuts myself.
Good luck to him. A great story
Hes "living the dream" but i would have to be paid a bloody fortune to do what he does for sod all. I think NH jockeys are nuts myself.
Good luck to him. A great story
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I'm rather tired of seeing 'the coalition government' in print all the time. It's 'the government', full stop. As for self-serving - I'm now so disillusioned about anyone in politics, I wouldn't trust a single one, Labour, Conservative, LibDem, Green, or Jesus Saves party. Under the table, all kinds of hands are held, and most palms emerge well greased.
I've just signed an online petition to the government (coalesced or not) to not let Murdoch get any further with his purchase of BSkyB until a full investigation has gone on into the phone-tapping and email-hacking his poodles have committed. I'm told by someone with a good ear to the ground that the Metropolitan Police may have some answering to do in this regard, too. But as 'Call me Dave' frolics regularly with the Murdochs at home, what hope has the public of ever seeing a free and fair investigation take place, hmm?
I give up on decrying ghastly African despots filling their pockets with overseas aid, and jetting first class to Switzerland to have their £20,000 suits hand-tailored by the dozen. Let their people revolt and cut off their heads. I'm beginning to think it's not such a bad idea, after all.
Sam Waley-Cohen for Prime Minister... not bad at all!
I've just signed an online petition to the government (coalesced or not) to not let Murdoch get any further with his purchase of BSkyB until a full investigation has gone on into the phone-tapping and email-hacking his poodles have committed. I'm told by someone with a good ear to the ground that the Metropolitan Police may have some answering to do in this regard, too. But as 'Call me Dave' frolics regularly with the Murdochs at home, what hope has the public of ever seeing a free and fair investigation take place, hmm?
I give up on decrying ghastly African despots filling their pockets with overseas aid, and jetting first class to Switzerland to have their £20,000 suits hand-tailored by the dozen. Let their people revolt and cut off their heads. I'm beginning to think it's not such a bad idea, after all.
Sam Waley-Cohen for Prime Minister... not bad at all!
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On The Bridle
At the Start
Would anyone on here rate him a better amateur than say Derek O'Connor or Jamie Codd. Throw in Nina Carberry and Mikey Fogarty - there's four off the top of my head. He's a decent jock with his head screwed on but he has some machinery under him it has to be said.
So does Nina! You can screw up horribly on a top horse (oh, I'm thinking of another Sam now!), so being given decent animals to ride is no guarantee you'll do them proud. The good thing is that he plays a lot of sport and is, therefore, very fit. There's no doubt that old-time amateurs often weren't! They tired three-quarters of the way round and were rolling more in their saddles (and unbalancing their equally tired nags) like Jack the Sailor. Nowadays amateurs have to be as fit as the pros to compete against them, no matter what horse they've got. If you can't think tactics, if you're lacking in muscular fitness and you're nice-but-dim, forget it! For all there are many jibes about jockeys not being the sharpest tools in the box, you still need to be quick-witted enough on course (if not in conversation) to take sudden opportunities or to swiftly correct what looks like possible disaster. Doesn't always work, as we know, but quick wits are as necessary as physical fitness.
OTB that is a very fair point but what can be said for SWC is that although he is no Ruby or AP he has not got in the way of Long Run winning or Liberthine before him . He is plainly very competent .
From what I've seen of him, both on a horse and off it (which isn't much, admittedly), the guy appears to conduct himself well.
There seem to be one or two posts on here which have a strong whiff of sour grapes..... So what if his parents are loaded and choose to indulge themselves in NH racing ? As long as they've instilled decent work ethics in their kids, good for them! What parent on here wouldn't - if they had the means and opportunity - do exactly the same to ensure whatever pursuit their child wanted to excel at as long as they had some basic talent to boot ?
There seem to be one or two posts on here which have a strong whiff of sour grapes..... So what if his parents are loaded and choose to indulge themselves in NH racing ? As long as they've instilled decent work ethics in their kids, good for them! What parent on here wouldn't - if they had the means and opportunity - do exactly the same to ensure whatever pursuit their child wanted to excel at as long as they had some basic talent to boot ?
You sound bitter about anything getting credit that is not associated with that man who speaks out of the side of his mouth.
On The Bridle
At the Start
That precisely is the point. He has basic talent and has been given the opportunities which he has made the most of. No more no less.
Irish Stamp
Forum Moderator
No but then I wouldn't rate him above any of the top UK amateurs - Burty, John Mathias etc.
Strictly speaking those you name aren't amateurs - they're Qualified Riders so it wouldn't be a fair comparison anyway
On The Bridle
At the Start
No but then I wouldn't rate him above any of the top UK amateurs - Burty, John Mathias etc.
Strictly speaking those you name aren't amateurs - they're Qualified Riders so it wouldn't be a fair comparison anyway
They ride in amateur races - whats the difference between a qualified rider and an amateur - I always believed that qualified riders were claiming professionals??
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Irish Stamp
Forum Moderator
QR's can be paid IIRC so technically they'll be getting paid for what they do rather than just doing it for the craic so to speak - think that's how it works.
Irish Stamp
Forum Moderator
I'm pretty sure I read an article about Doc saying he was getting paid £150 (should read Euros) per ride - hoping someone can put me right if that's not the case, can't find the article at the moment and the only ref I can find Re: QR fees is the various categories of licenses and how much they cost etc.
The Waley-Cohens are loaded because Dad saw marketing and business opportunities and took them. They could equally be broke if the marketing had gone tits up, so let's not, please, start any sort of sniping that Sam's getting good rides because his father can somehow magick them for him. You might as well then throw in 90% of NH riders as having advantages, since they come from hunting and PtP heritages and the Irish from extensive pony-racing backgrounds in Ireland.
You can have all the money in the world and still have no aptitude for what you want to do. You cannot be taught talent - you also have to have the desire to do what you're doing, and you have to do it extremely well in order to do it at Grand National level.
The line between amateurs and professionals is much more blurred these days as riding standards are so much higher than in the days of the gentleman jock. There are still some "old English lavatory seat" styles (that phrase courtesy of John Oaksey describing himself in the saddle), but overall, even in the military races, largely comprised of weekend hunters, the style - and thus the ability to help more than hinder your horse - is vastly improved.
You can have all the money in the world and still have no aptitude for what you want to do. You cannot be taught talent - you also have to have the desire to do what you're doing, and you have to do it extremely well in order to do it at Grand National level.
The line between amateurs and professionals is much more blurred these days as riding standards are so much higher than in the days of the gentleman jock. There are still some "old English lavatory seat" styles (that phrase courtesy of John Oaksey describing himself in the saddle), but overall, even in the military races, largely comprised of weekend hunters, the style - and thus the ability to help more than hinder your horse - is vastly improved.
That's a load of you know what. We all know Joseph O'Brien would not have been given the opportunities he has if his daddy was Paddy the Plasterer! And the same goes for Sam Waley Cohen. He is in a priveleged position to have a Daddy who has enough cash to endulge his sons pursuits of race riding. He is a perfectly competent rider, although I could think of a few amateurs who are more stylish and more effective, and that's before looking at the amateur ranks. But he has made very few mistakes over the last year or two and that means he is seen in a good light. But if his name was Sam Smith, and he was getting the ride on Master Minded next season, I bet ya Ruby would be bullin!!
You sound bitter about anything getting credit that is not associated with that man who speaks out of the side of his mouth.
You're right.....again
The next step for an amateur in Ireland is to turn professional, either is a conditional jockey or fully fledged. Amateurs are not entitled to be paid under the Rules of Racing and there is no payment through HRI, like there is for professionals/conditionals. However, I think it's pretty standard to give a lad €50 for a point to point ride, €100 for a bumper ride and if they win they get €500+. All in cash of course. Why do you think some of the top amateurs stay as amateurs. Philip Fenton made a small fortune out of being the top amateur rider in Ireland for years.
Irish Stamp
Forum Moderator
That's probably what I read Cantoris - they were definitely reporting Derek O'Connor on 1,400+ a week with a standard fee per ride (whether legitimately paid or not).
Shadow Leader
At the Start
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2003
- Messages
- 9,884
So bloody what, Cantoris? Sam Waley-Cohen had no say whatsoever in being born to well-off parents, the same as your Sam Smith had no choice if he were born to Paddy the Plasterer. His parents could afford to buy him decent horses to ride, so what? What is your point??
Songsheet is right (nurse!!!!!) in that there is most definitely the whiff of sour grapes in the air, the same as there often is when it comes to discussions involving Joseph O'Brien or Zara Phillips. Neither Sam nor Joseph norZara could help being born to well-off parents who had the means to buy decent horses for their children - and it just so happens that these children had a talent for what they do. Yet many won't admit that as they begrudge the fact that these people had good horses bought for them to ride. Well, actually, Zara bought Toytown very cheap and produced him entirely herself to become World champion - but let's ignore that and brush it under the carpet, please.
Sam Waley-Cohen may not be the perfect jockey but he is a good one. He is an amateur for God's sake, he doesn't have the experience of the pros as he doesn't ride all day, every day. Yet he is good for what he is - he'd be one of the top amateurs and if he doesn't ride fashionably, so what? He may ride with an unfashionable near hunting-style seat but do you know what? He doesn't fall off them often; that hunting seat does its job nicely, especially over those Aintree fences.
It's so easy for all you armchair jockeys to sit there and criticise; state that he only wins races as the horses he rides are so good - so c'mon, as that is the case, surely one of you guys could jump on board Long Run and win the Gold Cup then jump on Oscar Time and come second in the Grand National?
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Sour grapes - tall poppy syndrome - I am really surprised you hold such views - S W-C, as SL says, may not be the most stylish rider ever but he's been dedicated in training hard to be good enough to do his horses justice - and more - and he's also sensible enough to know that he doesn't want to turn professional because he prefers to keep his riding as his pleasure, rather than as his living. Nothing wrong in that!
Are you a father, Cantoris ? If you are and your kids wanted to be amateurs and you could afford it, would you stop them ? If they wanted to do anything else that involved your help in funding them and they were serious about doing the job properly, would you say to them you wouldn't help ?
Are you a father, Cantoris ? If you are and your kids wanted to be amateurs and you could afford it, would you stop them ? If they wanted to do anything else that involved your help in funding them and they were serious about doing the job properly, would you say to them you wouldn't help ?
Why ? If they own the horse and as long as they aren't an actual danger to either the horse or anyone else riding in the same race, then whether or not the rest of us aren't happy is immaterial.
The real problem with amateurs - and you can see it at any point to point - are those horse forward that are poorly trained, unfit and ridden by unfit riders - now they should be dealt with in a kindly way as possible because they pose a real danger. Not sure it's very a frequent occurence under Rules, though.
Because it is a vanity project in those circumstances and they should realise they are holding the horse back .
I doubt the horse cares much, James, as long as it is properly looked after!
It's also a 'vanity project' that no doubt generates a fair bit of business surrounding it - farrier, transport, vet, general day-to-day maitenance and sundries. If anyone feels strongly enough about seeing the horse in 'better' hands, they always have the option of trying to buy the horse, after all. Or maybe spotting the horse when it was first offered for sale.....