Snowy Morning

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What do we make of this one’s Grand National chances? Interesting to know if Ruby would stay with the Nicholls horse’s or takes the mount on Mullins horse.

Due to stay over hurdles until the weights come out…jumping might be a worry for me. They should take the Stayers Hurdle in along the way!
 
Agree that they should have a go at the World Hurdle,increasingly starting to look a weakish renewal and would have prospects the way he has performed in those recent hurdles spins.
 
Depends surely on what Nicholls is running ? If he runs Mr Pointment or something else with a very big chance I imagine he won't be too pleased to see Ruby on a Mullins horse .
 
Ruby stuck with Hedgehunter last season when Nicholls had Eurotrek in the race and well fancied. It seems Ruby is that good (or considered so by both trainers) that they give him free rein to choose.
 
I wonder is there any chance Aitmatov might go the stayers hurdle route. Seems to be a few quid for him recently for that event plus his stable already has Harchibald and Jazz Messenger for the Champion Hurdle.
 
2006 Numbersixvalverde 10 10-8 11-1

2005 Hedgehunter 9 11-1 7-1
2004 Amberleigh House 12 10-10 16-1
2003 Monty's Pass 10 10-7 16-1
2002 Bindaree 8 10-4 20-1
2001 Red Marauder 9 10-12 33-1
2000 Papillon 9 10-12 10-1
1999 Bobbyjo 9 9-10 10-1
1998 Earth Summit 10 10-5 7-1
1997 Lord Gyllene 9 9-10 14-1
1996 Rough Quest 10 10-7 7-1
1995 Royal Athlete 12 10-6 40-1
1994 Miinnehoma 11 10-8 16-1
1993 VOID
1992 Party Politics 8 10-7 14-1
1991 Seagram 11 10-6 12-1
1990 Mr Frisk 11 10-6 16-1
 
With Sam Thomas having done so well as a super sub this autumn Aidan I imagine Ruby won't want to put his association with Nicholls at risk .
 
I'd agree with that absolutely, Gal.

Ruby or Sam? To me it's a no-brainer! I'd imagine most owners would feel the same.
 
Originally posted by Gareth Flynn@Jan 4 2008, 05:45 PM
Geoff Thomas could have won on Kauto and Denman.
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At Haydock ? :rolleyes:

I am sure Ruby's position is not under threat from Sam Thomas but it is noticeable that he seldom prefers Mullins horses to those trained by Nicholls, even when they are equally fancied - remember the Albuhera incident .

Abandoning a Nicholls trained horse in a very high profile race , especially if Ruby was thought important to the horse might change matters though.
 
Did you not read Eurotrek vs Hedgehunter that was mentioned earlier Ardross?

Ruby is in a position where he can pick and choose between the two trainers. How many instances has he needed to choose? I would think he partners the horse with the best chance. If some owner has a problem with it, it is probably going to hurt them, rather than Ruby, in the long run.

Riding Our Ben rather than Star De Mohaison in the Sun Alliance was one of the higher profile mistakes.
 
Garney is there any need to be rude ?

He wasn't abandoning Eurotrek - the horse was ridden by Heard before and I don't think that it is a good example at all - nor really is S de M the horse was unfancied when it won the RSA.

He knows on which side his bread is buttered.
 
He wasn't abandoning Eurotrek - the horse was ridden by Heard before and I don't think that it is a good example at all
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Err who rode Mr Pointment at Aintree? Sam Thomas...it shouldnt be an issue then.
 
Where was I rude Ardross?

There hasnt been any evidence that either Nicholls or Mullins stops Ruby from riding each others horses. IThe situation doesnt arise too often.

Have been looking through Cheltenham records on this, and when Nicholls and Mullins have a horse in a race, Walsh is always on the shortest in the betting. Seemingly a no-brainer who he would choose, so we are looking when Nicholls and Mullins horses have a relatively equal chance.

Hedgehunter was a 16/1 shot for the GC when second to WOA. Cornish Rebel was 16/1 and Royal Auclair (placed in the race) was 20/1. Ruby rode Hedgehunter.

Mr Hight was 4/1 for the 2006 triumph. Turko was 8/1. Ruby rode Mr Hight.

Equus Maximus was 5/2f for the Champion BUmber. Kicks for free was 2nd fav at 5/1. Ruby rode Equus Maximus.

Noland won for Walsh and Nicholls at 6/1, WP Mullins had Quartre Heures in the race at 10/1

Will search for more but no evidence so far that either trainer enforces their will on the jockey. And so far, it has been that if horses have a similar chance, he tends to favour Mullins. Plenty of other occasions where Ruby has been freed up to ride a more fancied horse, even with a Nicholls or Mullins horse in the race.
 
Originally posted by Ardross+Jan 4 2008, 05:53 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ardross @ Jan 4 2008, 05:53 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Gareth Flynn@Jan 4 2008, 05:45 PM
Geoff Thomas could have won on Kauto and Denman.
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At Haydock ? :rolleyes:

[/b][/quote]
I was exaggerating of course, but I don't think Thomas had to do much more than any competent pro jockey would have been capable of.
 
Would it be fair to say that this has as much to do with the history and affinity with the horse as stable preferences and that both trainers are grown up enough to accept that? Some horses just need a certain jockey more than others of course

Always struck me that the whole situation has been handled pretty well
 
Garney, in no way to I disagree with what your saying but would it not be fair to say that Ruby being on one over another is going to have an effect on the prices?
 
Originally posted by simmo@Jan 4 2008, 03:25 PM
On Snowy Morning, I seem to recall that 8yo's don't have the best record in the race???? Am I talking pish?
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Imo they would be mad to send Snowy Morning for the National this year. He'd have a good chance next year provided his jumping hold up 100% between now and then. The GN is no place for 2nd season chasers who have fallen in the season of the race. I love the horse but wouldn't back in this year's GN with SL's stolen money - esp as there are some cracking chances aimed at the race with experience over the fences
 
Originally posted by Gearoid@Jan 4 2008, 11:40 PM
Garney, in no way to I disagree with what your saying but would it not be fair to say that Ruby being on one over another is going to have an effect on the prices?
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I had thought of that Gearoid, and it is impossible to know the effect of Ruby's selection on the odds. What we can say about it though, is that the Ruby factor would be reduced if he wasn't allowed to freely choose the horse he wanted to ride.
 
they would be mad to send Snowy Morning for the National this year. He'd have a good chance next year provided his jumping hold up 100% between now and then. The GN is no place for 2nd season chasers who have fallen in the season of the race. I love the horse but wouldn't back in this year's GN with SL's stolen money - esp as there are some cracking chances aimed at the race with experience over the fences
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I'm not quite disagreeing with you but this post contradicts itself somewhat. National experience is becoming important now in considerations...so I think there's no problem in sending SM for the race this year although I wouldn't be backing it I don't think. It's the only way the horse can get that experience.

Hedgehunter ran in the race as an 8 year old...ran well..fell at the last..learned and strengthened from it and came back and won the race next time.
 
I think Snowy Morning is the most exciting staying chaser in Ireland at the moment.The fact that Willie is pushing him towards the National speaks volumes.If he gets anywhere close to a mark of 143 he would take all the beating.
They have some hard choices to make with this horse -he could easily be placed in the Gold Cup or Stayers Hurdle.
 
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