Snowy Morning

Originally posted by Bobbyjo@Jan 5 2008, 01:17 PM

I'm not quite disagreeing with you but this post contradicts itself somewhat. National experience is becoming important now in considerations...so I think there's no problem in sending SM for the race this year although I wouldn't be backing it I don't think. It's the only way the horse can get that experience.
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It's one way of doing it but there is also the Topham and the Becher's over the fences, and the Foxhunters. With some horses their first experience of the GN can put them of it! Agreed though that horses which have run well in the GN at 8rs old can then go on to win
 
I would rather a horse gain experience over the National fences in the Grand National itself. The Topham/Bechers is a much tougher test over the fences at speed.
 
And all of them have max fields pretty well - but I think the huge GN field can sometimes be scary for a younger horse. Irish horses do well in the race conversely as they are used to huge fields from the start of their careers. The point about the GN fences is, either horses love them or they don't - it's true that that winners of the shorter races over them rarely go on to win the GN, but you can often spot a horse which is loving the trip - and getting that valuable experience
 
Glencove Marina will put Ardross's theory to an interesting test. I dont think he will get off him for any of Nicholls's prospective chasers even if it means a clash with Noland in the Arkle. He was positively gushing about this one today.
 
The BBC says

Bookmakers reacted to his victory on testing ground by cutting Noland's odds for the Arkle from 14-1 to 8-1.

Nicholls' assistant Dan Skelton said: "Ruby was waxing lyrical about the horse and he jumped great.

So I agree with Aidan - this will be very interesting if Ruby does choose Glencove Marina . I reckon he won't :)
 
Sounds like Glencove Marina is going down the RSA route, Ardross.

I was very impressed with Noland's jumping today. The question is whether he will be able to overcome the flat spot he seems to inevitably hit in his races in the Arkle (seemed to be evidence of it again today as well).

According to today's RP, there seems to be a doubt whether Noland will run at the Festival at all.
 
Ardross, you're missing the hugely relevant point that Hales has stated that Noland won't go to Cheltenham this year - he is currently embroiled in a row with Nicholls over it, if you belive what is written in the press.

I found it interesting that Skelton was quoted as saying

....there is no reason with a horse like him not to be thinking about Cheltenham.

"He'll put in the Royal & SunAlliance Chase as well as the Arkle, but on that performance you wouldn't think he really needs to go much further."
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which seems interesting to me in light of Hales' quoted insistence in today's RP that the horse won't go to Cheltenham, and in light of the fact that Hales is in Barbados and therefore not easily accessible to the press for quotes directly after today's race. In such a situation I wouldn't be either pushing Hales or openly going to the press and moaning about what Hales has said, not least whilst pressing on and letting your assistant make quotes to the press suggesting that they are carrying on as usual with Cheltenham the target contrary to the apparent views of the owner.
 
Noted that as well, Shads.

With regard to Hales, it is interesting that he favours restricting Noland to 'flatter tracks' this year. He obviously has a short memory.
 
I hadn't read that . Just the denials of the story on SL site .

It would be bizarre Noland of course thrives up the Cheltenham hill . It the story is true I imagine it is an emotional response post Granit Jack

The RP is now reporting :



Noland set for Arkle bid
after impressive victory


by Bruce Jackson
.

NOLAND returned from a year off to push the door back open to an Arkle Trophy challenge with an impressive first effort over fences at Folkestone on Monday.

There had been disagreement between trainer Paul Nicholls and owner John Hales over a possible Cheltenham tilt for the seven-year-old, winner of the Supreme Novices' Hurdle at the 2006 festival, before his chasing debut.

However, all that seemed to be water under the bridge after he jumped to victory in the beginners' chase at a rainlashed and windswept Kent track under Ruby Walsh, for whom he was the only ride of the day.

Bookmakers, perhaps cautious after Monday's Racing Post front-page story, did not go overboard afterwards, although he was promoted to Arkle joint-second favourite behind Tidal Bay in some places.

Blue Square, Coral and Ladbrokes were notable in going 10-1 while Hills, Totesport and Paddy Power went 8-1.

Try as Manhattan Boy and Polinamix might to get Noland to stretch through the 2m contest, the dual Grade 1 hurdle winner had too much class for his rivals and sauntered clear at the end of the back straight before running lazily to allow Polinamix to chase him home at a respectable distance of nine lengths.
And the Irish Independent-sponsored Arkle seemed back on the agenda, although there were whispers that his other entry in the Royal & SunAlliance Chase could come under some consideration.

Nicholls, speaking from his stables, said: "Looking at that, I don't need to go much furtherwith him.

�He did that quite nicely - he just needs some experience. There are no big races for him to go in now but in ten days' time he ought to be able to go and have another race like that somewhere.

"I have got to build on his experience. He jumped how he had been jumping at home, which is really pleasing. Whatever has been said he will definitely have an entry in the Arkle. John hasn't ruled it out at all.

"Quite rightly he was concerned after what happened to Granit Jack and Noland not having had much experience. If we can get experience into him John is certainly not ruling it out."

Assistant Dan Skelton, coming off the phone to an ecstatic Hales who had watched the race in a Bridgetown bookies in Barbados, echoed the trainer's thoughts and mentioned the Kingmaker Chase at Warwick on February 9 as a potential target.

Walsh was delighted with Noland's display, particularly pleased with the novice's handling of the second-last when not on a stride.

"He was really clever at the second-last and jumped well. He wasn't doing much in front, ears pricked, on that heavy ground. He was deadly."
 
Hales was directly quoted in the RP as having said the following on Sunday (it was plastered all over today's front page too, hardly tucked away) :

“I have lost a horse already this season and whatever he does at Folkestone or in February, you've got to understand that I don't want to lose another horse.

“Let him go to Punchestown, let him go to Aintree and do his learning on a flat track, but he won't be going to Cheltenham this year. This year is about learning.”
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Which seems slightly different to what Nicholls and Skelton are saying today. Nicholls was also quoted this morning as saying he was "bitterly disappointed" if it were the case that the horse wasn't to go to Cheltenham and said it was the first he had heard of it, amongst other things (wryly commenting on One Man's death at Liverpool, for one).

Maybe Nicholls regrets what seemed to me rather too rash comments to the RP and has tempered them, prompting the SL article. Whatever, it's possibly not advisable for Nicholls and Skelton to talk too extensively to the press about him running at Cheltenham whilst the owner appears to not want him to run and is not available to comment freely at the moment.
 
Oh dear, Hales has kinda lost the plot a bit. At least when one of Nicholls other owners lost a few horses he decided enough was enough and pulled out of racing. If Hales wants to enjoy the big days, he has to be able to take the bad days too. None of us like having an injured horse or one dying, but that is part of our sport and its what makes us so proud of both horse and jockey when they win. If he doesn't want the potential downside why doesnt he retire Noland. He could get injured on any track at any time, or at hime....just check out the 2008 Departures thread
 
Considering he watched his horse win at Punchestown last year, you would have thought he'd have noticed that that track is anything but flat.
 
There seems to have been some backtracking now the horse has won :rolleyes:
Perhaps Nicholls, or Skelton, reminded Hales that the horse has already won twice at Cheltenham

It seems to me the remarks quoted form Hales might have come from a while ago when the Granit Jack scenario was still very fresh, or do we know they are this week's?
 
Ruby wont get off Glencove Marina for anything…certainly not on the back of winning a 4-5 runner egg and spoon race at Folkestone. Once Glencove disposes of Skys The Limit and co in the Moriarty there wont be a decision to make.
 
Please quote me where I said that...please!

But in the context of comparing it to Noland, Glencove Marina hit an RPR of 151 literally hard held.
 
He could take Noland to Aintree for the Maghull Chase - slightly less prize money, arguably likely to be a weaker field too. Hales knows about losing horses at Aintree too though :(
 
certainly not on the back of winning a 4-5 runner egg and spoon race at Folkestone.
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Thats not the point. As with GM (who i havent seen yet) it is a case of how well the horse went rather than what he beat. Understtod he was also very happy with yesterdays performance, so who knows which we he will turn (if he has to)?
 
Glencove Marina achieved considerably more when winning at Leopardstown the other day than Noland did yesterday.
 
I have Glencove in a provisional 143P, it is the same level I have him over hdls but the doubt is h has not still posted a good time in any of his races.
 
He never dropped the bit the last day at Leopardstown. If that race had been run more strongly he would have won even easier. What’s more he prefers better ground. Definitely top of the novice chasing tree right now imo.
 
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