Starting My Own Bookmakers

D

denisco_uk

At the Start
Joined
Apr 28, 2004
Messages
75
Location
Liverpool, UK
I, and a business partner are considering opening our own bookmakers, and could do with some advice from someone who has been through the experience themselves.

I am looking at a location with my home town, but am unsure of how to break into the market. I currently work for William Hill and am trained as a settler, so i am looking at using old style tills with a camera and ALBOS, but i could do with some advice.

If anyone has any experience within the field, could they please PM or email me, i'll be eternally grateful.

Many thanks

Phil.

(N.B: Not quite whether this needs to be in the horse racing section, feel free to move if need be)
 
I wouldn't know about setting up a bookies Denisco as I haven't done it but I would certainly say that one of the first things you should do is sort out obtaining a bookmaker's licence for yourself & your partner before you do anything else. You will also have to speak to the council in the location where you are planning to set up a shop because as well as you being licenced, any premises you set up will have to be licenced too and this is not always an easy licence to obtain. The council will look at the location you wish to set up in, the number of bookmakers in the locality and the amount of competition already present before granting any licence - and they can also say no if they don't think that the presence of a bookmakers will help the town's image, so to speak.

Personally, I wouldn't advise using the old style slips & a camera as they are not very security conscious & there are plenty of fraudsters out there who are well aware of how to cheat the system with the old-style double slips - they can deceive & con even the most experienced managers.

Just a suggestion - would it maybe be an idea to start off with a bookmaker's pitch, or start by trading the exchanges first - ie laying rather than backing.

Above all I really would recommend sorting out licencing details before you start going much further with your venture or you could be left high & dry. I'm not entirely sure but I'm guessing it's BOLA [or the ABB as it is now] you contact with regards to that sort of thing.
 
I was going to post in similar vein. As long as the applicant has a clean record, obtaining a bookmaker's licence is easy and relatively cheap. Getting the premises licensed can be more difficult as other bookmakers in the vicinity may well object on the grounds that the area is well catered for. There would be no harm in obtaining a bookmaker's licence before finding premises though.

My main advice would be as it would be for any type of business that you were planning to start - don't be under capitalised. Most new start-ups fail because of under-estimation of the capital required. A good rule is to calculate how much working capital you'll require - and double it.
 
I was very close to doing it about 12 or 13 years ago.I was relatively young at the time-22-and an uncle of mine was going to bankroll it.For a couple of reasons it didn't happen.
Apart from the working capital issue there is also the question of how happy you would be taking someones wages every week.Realistically your profit isn't going to come from taking on shrewdies in a battle of wits -it will come from the mugs and the compulsive gamblers.
 
there was an article on how to start up as a bookie in inside edge mag a month ago. I have unfortunatly binned the mag since but if you can get hold of a copy. There is a 2 page spread on it or you can try the website.
 
Originally posted by LUKE@Sep 13 2005, 01:22 PM
Apart from the working capital issue there is also the question of how happy you would be taking someones wages every week.Realistically your profit isn't going to come from taking on shrewdies in a battle of wits -it will come from the mugs and the compulsive gamblers.
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Luke, you are an admirable rarity.

I would never have thought of that angle. However, how much different is it from punting? Are successful punters making money from bookmakers, or are they making it from other - unsuccessful - punters. Bookmakers, scum that they are :lol: , are merely middle men, brokers. They take their cut and if they're doing their job properly they won't lose.

Still, it's raised some other questions.

If you did own a bookie's, would you instal a slot machine? Vending machines? Condom machines? Would you take bets on the cartoon racing?
 
When I was younger I worked in various betting shops in London.I saw plenty of men come in full of bravado on a friday afternoon with their paypackets.A few early winners would see the confidence soar but more often then not they would crash and burn.Presumably these men had wives and children.
I know 3 guys in their 20s living in my town that owe at least €30K each-because of gambling.
Slot machines are illegal in Irish betting shops (for the moment) and personally I think they are disgusting.
 
As a student I worked in a bookies for a short while.

On Fair Friday (the shipyards closed at 1pm on Fair Friday), the guys would come in with the holiday pay packets and fire huge (for them) bets across the counter: unnamed Favourites, SBs, you name it. Guys who normally shirked at punting a quid each-way were hammering in with £20 win bets and losing heavily. Sickening.

To his credit, the manager went out into the shop and had a quiet word with one or two of them to get them to take their wages home to their wives and kids.
 
The logical extension of this thinking is that there should be no bookmakers, no casinos, no pubs, no off-licences, no tobacconists let alone people who sell goods and services which are not altogether legal.

I'd try the Iranian immigration service.
 
The main problem i'm faced with is that there is just so many imponderables to weigh up before going into the industry.

Licences?
SIS?
Satellite/Broadband linkup?
EPoS? Other tills?
Security?
Expenses?

As a rough calculation i had a figure of 30-50k needed to start up, leasing a disused shop in Liverpool.

What confuses me though, is the amount of linking between SIS, Epos, Albos, FOBT machines etc. We have a chart in our shop showing all of them linked together, and it looks mind bogglingly difficult to set up.

My main business plan was to offer an extra 10% on all winning below £500, i do this for three reasons:

1) If i am generating around 15-20% Gross Profit, i dont think 13.5-18% would make too much difference to my overall end of year standpoint

2) It would ensure that i gained a lot of business from other shops and quickly. Despite the shortfall in GP, i feel i would earn more overall due to the increased number of slips being put on.

3) It would differentiate myself from the existing market, and create a brand and image.

I also plan to have FOBT machines put in, as they make a fortune (in my existing shop anyhow), although im pretty sure theyd be expensive to lease.

Ultimately my main problem is lack of information, i found a website (www.westform.co.uk) or something like that who help with all facets of setting up independent bookmakers, but ill feel like a bit of an arse phoning them and saying i'm a 22 year old who's just finished a masters degree, and has no money.
 
denisco, it would be a very good idea to visit the Betting Show at the National Exhibition Centre in Birmingham on 19th and 20th October. It's an exhibition show for the trade and you'll find suppliers happy to talk to you about both the technical aspects of any electronic or mechanical equipment you might need and various ways in which it can be financed.

By the way, if you do start up with your "10% extra" deal then make sure that you advertise a finite date for it - many loss leaders end up staying that way!
 
My good friends Kath and Tony used to have their own pitches and their own shop. I can put you in touch with them if you'd like to speak to someone who's been there, done that? I'm sure they'd have plenty of advice.

I'm no expert but I'd suggest having at least two FOBT's in your shop. A fantastic source of income. And Fred offers a 25%, 50% and 100% bonus on Lucky 15, 31 and 63's. I can assure you that only once in a blue moon do we ever have to pay that out. I've been with Fred for a year and have only seen it done twice, so it's well worth offering it just to draw in the extra punters.
 
With regards to FOBTs I'm not entirely sure how many you are allowed per shop - when I managed a shop about 4/5 years ago we were only allowed 2 fruit machines in there, as per the licence, which was about average for the time.

Denisco - it is worth contacting SIS about costs as you really will need it broadcast in your shop if you are to make a successful go of it. It's not cheap though, I know that much.

Another thing to think about is who/where you are going to get your prices from - you will have to pay a charge to whichever bookmakers you take prices from. I know of one service that was something like £280 to set up & £120/year thereafter, that was about 4 years ago.

Brian's idea of going to to the Betting Show at the NEC is a very good idea & it will give you a better idea of who to contact. There are quite a few companies out there who speciallise in setting up everything for you - including shop-fitting, fitting all the link-ups, screens, SIS feeds, tills & the lot. There is also a magazine that comes out every month or so that contains many details about different companies like this, it also offers advice about setting up a shop & contains many contacts/adverts for shopfitters/service providers (ie prices & stuff)/tills/even second hand stuff like tills. I'm really sorry, I can't remember the name of the magazine though as I haven't seen one for a few years although I'm sure it's still going.
 
Why are FOBTs so profitable? Because they are highly addictive. Dublin City Council banned them from Dublin in the 1980s after a strong public campaign.
 
The maximum number of FOBT's allowed is four, and we have four in my shop. If the law allowed it I'm sure there would be more.

Personally I think they are disgusting.Surely you are either operating a bookmakers or an amusement arcade.
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I'm presuming Denisco is intending to open his shop to make money, and that's exactly what he'll do with FOBT's. They are entirely legal and I see nothing wrong in them at all. Yes they're played excessively by people who can probably ill afford to do so, but I'm not their mother and if I'm prepared to take cash off of them for betting, I'd take cash off of them for playing on the FOBT's too. A fool and his money etc etc...... Maybe I have no morals? :lol:
 
Originally posted by LUKE@Sep 14 2005, 02:39 PM
And if your own children got hooked in later life would that be fair game.
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I would hope that they wouldn't. But by having a betting shop with FOBT's does not mean I have a moral obligation to care for my customers. Publicans still serve alcoholics don't they?
 
Go, Luke, go... B)

I don't think it's a question of morals, Griffin. It seems Luke has worked out in his own mind that he'd have trouble with his conscience if he felt he was encouraging people to throw away money irresposibly.

Or are morals and conscience one and the same thing?
 
I very dear colleague of mine, staunchly Church of Scotland, once said she could never consider becoming a Catholic because they played bingo in the church hall and ran race nights to generate funds. She said she couldn't reconcile this 'gambling' with the teachings of the church.
 
I am not talking about the morals or responsibilities of the shop managers-you are just doing your job as I did mine when I was a cashier.
The more widespread these machines are the more society will suffer.
 
Putting into context I play poker with my friends once a year.I would have no problem taking a weeks wages off any of them.....but I certainly wouldn't like to be doing it every week.Maybe I am a hypocrite with mix and match morality but thats what I think.
Lets face it how many people get quiet enjoyment from these slot machines -it is an all or nothing experience.
 
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