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The 2025 International Stakes

Ian_Davies said:
Well, if it really is a "laydown" forecast then obviously it is value at 7/2 - and as stated on paper that should be the one-two - but for all the other reasons I stated I'm not sure it's quite as straightforward as that.

It's interesting you said you can't have Ombudsman at all and yet you've got him in a forecast bet - game of fine margins, I suppose, you can't have him to win but can have him to be runner up.
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Ffs,
can't have Ombudsman to win
stuff your pedantry.
 
I was honestly just trying to discuss the race with you and get to the bottom of what you think and why you think it - I have conversations like this with others here every day of the week with no drama.

Some people, when they say they can't have a horse at all, might think it's a lay, or even a place lay, but you're putting it in a forecast, so that tells me that you do actually expect it to run well, but not win.

I do wish you'd chill out.

Everything really doesn't need to be a competition or a confrontation - life really is too short.

Good luck with your bets.
 
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I'm completely against Ombudsman I'll forecast against him trifecta against him and if he makes me look a mug by bolting up then I'll just hold my hands up and say I got it wrong. Best of luck to those who hold the opposite view just hope its a proper race and let the best horse come out on top. I think its the most excited ive been about a flat race all season and hope it turns out to be as good as im expecting.
 
Danny said:
I'm completely against Ombudsman I'll forecast against him trifecta against him and if he makes me look a mug by bolting up then I'll just hold my hands up and say I got it wrong. Best of luck to those who hold the opposite view just hope its a proper race and let the best horse come out on top. I think its the most excited ive been about a flat race all season and hope it turns out to be as good as im expecting.
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Great stuff, Danny - it's a game of opinions and, just for the record, when I start questioning literally anyone here, it's because they seem to be saying things that contradict their previous statements and I am simply interested in getting to the bottom of what they think and why they think it.

I'm not trying to catch anyone out, or make anyone look silly - I've got better things to do with my time, frankly.

I agree it's a really interesting race and only one thing is certain - if the winner doesn't put in an OR 130+ performance Maurice will have something to say about it....that's your nap of the meeting right there! 😂
 
Danny said:
I'm completely against Ombudsman I'll forecast against him trifecta against him and if he makes me look a mug by bolting up then I'll just hold my hands up and say I got it wrong.
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Please tell me you have him beating the pacemaker at least! 😂
 
Ian_Davies said:
I was honestly just trying to discuss the race with you and get to the bottom of what you think and why you think it - I have conversations like this with others here every day of the week with no drama.

Some people, when they say they can't have a horse at all, might think it's a lay, or even a place lay, but you're putting it in a forecast, so that tells me that you do actually expect it to run well, but not win.

I do wish you'd chill out.

Everything really doesn't need to be a competition or a confrontation - life really is too short.

Good luck with your bets.
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I haveDelacroix down as a apeed horse,Ombudsman as a galloper (the POW was the first 2 beating tired horses,rather than any great burst t speed).
We'll see.
 
Although I don't fancy Ombudsman to win part of me would quite like to see him prevail and witness Matt Chapman rushing over to John Gosden in the winners enclosure to be told to f%*& right off.
 
My [not deeply researched - tight for time] thoughts. As for the overall quality, I'm not sure Danon Decile would be thought the best horse in Japan, which might be an indication of much better the Japanese horses are. We've lost the plot over here when it comes to breeding for middle-distance class.

1755676026062.png
 
Ian_Davies said:
I've spent most of 2025 hearing and reading (mostly from Maurice) how this is a less-than-vintage year with many G1 winners hovering around OR 120 at best.

I've also read how we have the worst bunch of "top-flight" jockeys in a generation and how they're not fit to lace the boots of Lester Piggott or Steve Cauthen in terms of judgement of pace.

At Goodwood, a pacemaking rag rated OR 102 going into the race made all.

Tomorrow a 5yo who was once within a length of Ace Impact and has an OR of 109 may well get a soft lead.

Would YOU want to lay 160 on the machine about Birr Castle doing a Qirat?

Because if you're betting against it, you're not backing a Frankel or a Sea The Stars, that's for sure.
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Birr Castle touched 3 in running. 😂
 
Pleased to see Ombudsman showing his true form.

For all the talk about it being an unsatisfactory race, Ombudsman has done to Delacroix and See The Fire what the ratings suggested were their line of merit.

It will be interesting to see what kind of picture the sectionals paint. Delacroix got the result in an unsatisfactory Eclipse, Ombudsman got it today.

Roll on their next meeting.
 
Like I said in the very first post on this thread, never forget that extra 110 yards because a lot can happen during it at the death.
 
Truncheon said:
Gosden saying the only time he got beat was in a "muddling old Eclipse"

Not half as muddling as today
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A lot of joke races this season to be fair, but that took the biscuit. You’re spending the whole straight wondering if they’ll get there and not actually watching the horses that matter. It ruins every aspect of the race.
 

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