The Cheltenham going thread 2015

Len Madeiros said:
Because it was too quick for Hurricane Fly?
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Was actually after Vautour's follow up at Punchestown. He said The ground was quick enough at Cheltenham and some of our horses are not moving as well this week having run there. He said he hoped Cheltenham had 'learned' their lesson.
Have to say I thought what ruddy cheek.

Must admit, your Fly question did cross my mind. The hoses will be out in force the night before, with Willie at the helm. :D
 
From RP

ANOTHER dry night at Cheltenham has left the ground as good to soft, good in places and with little rain forecast before the start of next week’s festival, officials started a cycle of watering on Friday morning.
Clerk of the course Simon Claisse has made the decision after his forecast continued to suggest 1-1.5mm of rain before the meeting starts on Tuesday.
“We’re selectively watering to maintain current conditions and will apply 3-4mm of irrigation in an exercise that should be finished by Sunday morning,” he said.
“The forecast remains for the weather to get significantly warmer and mostly dry.”
Claisse added the current GoingStick readings - 6.9 across the tracks - will be updated once the watering has been completed.
 
and yet the official ground on the first day was Good/Soft good in places:whistle:..just shows how trainers are told what they want to hear by racecourses..after the first race last year..the only people away from the track that knew what the ground was was the silly people on racing forums with stopwatches..everyone else just looked at the going stick readings and listened to the COC..and were misinformed

its only the most important aspect of racing..and yet here we are in 2015..we have a really good tool in the penetrometer..completely misused and made a nonsense of by a number of COC's.

its really simple isn't it..its not rocket science....you take a number of readings ..and give the results..but what actually happens..they take the readings...don't really believe them and change the going to suit what they think..but still give that reading alongside their interpretation..how stupid is that?

its time this whole going thing was sorted..no wonder folk aren't too interested in racing..oh yes i'd like to follow horse racing..whats the main thing we need to know..answer..well horses prefer certain surfaces in the main to show best.....oh so you know what the surface is each day?..oh no we guess it

great advert for a multi million pound industry that is
 
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they watered after the first day as far as i know ..and the times back that up..on Tuesday it was 17lb per mile fast..on Wednesday it was 0 ...so whatever happened overnight..slowed the track down

i think they realised it was top end good and took action
 
Anything that ensures safe ground for the horses over the course of the week should be encouraged, imo.

:whistle:
 
grassy driving by cheltenham racecourse. circa monday.

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EC1 said:
they watered after the first day as far as i know ..and the times back that up..on Tuesday it was 17lb per mile fast..on Wednesday it was 0 ...so whatever happened overnight..slowed the track down

i think they realised it was top end good and took action
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Dunno, EC: there's certainly no mention of it on either the RP or Turftrax sites, yet they're both unequivocal it was watered on Wednesday night. Don't ever recall them not allowing the OC ground to stand for the first 2 days either. RP have the timed ground just 5/100 s.p.f. per furlong faster* on the 2nd day too, so - though there's obviously an enigma in there somewhere - it's hardly clear that it was caused by the hosepipe.


*Apologies; should be 5/100ths slower - my bad.
 
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its clearly slower looking at the times Reet..and when you stick them through a spreadsheet as a whole thing its really clear it was slower,,,can be demonstrated in two comparisons without a lot of calcs

On Tuesday The Arkle was decently run in a time of 227.04..24 hours later the QM was run in 228.49 even though that too was solidly run. the speed figures of each winner represent the abilities of both fields with the speed figure earned.

the other main comparison is the supreme or CH compared with the Grade 3 won by Hawk High on the wednesday .The supreme should be run about 30lbs faster than HH's race when you allow for weight carried and ability..approx 4.5 seconds,,but the supreme was run nearly 6 seconds faster.. showing a slowing of ground on Wednesday of at least 12lb. Indeed if it had been the same or faster then HH would have won in 230/231 rather than the 232.19 it ended up as

I doubt anyone who makes figures would have Wednesday as faster or the same ground...Topspeed figs are a bit of a joke tbh....and have been shown to be on so many occasions i can't remember..they are joke imo and have been for a long time

It makes me wonder sometimes if they don't just try to back up what the course wants to see..play the industry game.

if you sit and do the figures for both days..and use the same going allowance on both days like it appears topspeed has done..then every race on day 2 would be slowly run by a 17lbs..does anyone think that every race on day two was slow by 17 lengths?....that includes a solidly run QM...and Faugheen's ..his speed figure using the same allowance as Tuesday would be 136..and Sire De Grugy 151...a solid grade 3 hurdle with a speed figure of 107...mmm.

There is another alternative to believing that Sire De Grugy put in the slowest speed figure recorded for a QM winner..and that Faugheen also put one of the slowest performances ..and that is..the ground was slower.

My theory is they watered but didn't want anyone to know about it..because if they admitted watering Tuesday night..when the ground was given as Good/Soft ..people would want to know wtf was happening..they would have had to admit that the first day it was top side good..and so they had to temper it down for day two. I think the RP have gone along with that by not publishing the correct going allowance for wednesday

its all about giving wrong information..then trying to hide the mistake

i find it very interesting how they seem very cautious this year to want to water at this stage..and thats because they got caught out last year on the first day
 
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Not going related but someone somewhere asked who the course commentator was next week. Mike Cattermole, Richard Hoiles, Ian Bartlett and Mark Johnson are sharing the duties, don't know who is doing what though.
 
Henderson clearly not amused with the watering.
"Will walk the track on Sunday and might take a penknife and cut the hoses".
 
Met Office forecast suggests light-rain Sunday and Monday, and a much cooler week than was being predicted a few days ago. Cloud and low temperatures for Tuesday/Wednesday apparently.

Please Jebus, let Claisse properly fu*ck the ground-up.
 
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From RP:
OFFICIALS at Cheltenham racecourse do not intend to do any further watering before the festival starts on Tuesday.

The going remained unchanged as good to soft, good in places on Sunday afternoon on the Old course, which will be used on Tuesday and Wednesday, the New course used Thursday and Friday and the cross-country course.

A selective watering programme, started on Friday morning, was completed by lunchtime Saturday on all three courses with three or four millimetres put on to maintain the going description.

The forecast is for a little light rain Sunday and Monday (up to two millimetres), with temperatures up to a maximum of 12C on those days.

The GoingStick reading is 6.8 on the Old course, 6.9 on the New course and 7.1 on the cross-country course.
 
Weather forecast on local radio this morning

Monday A dry morning but a spell of rain, sometimes heavy, this afternoon clearing to give a dry night

Tuesday A nice day with hazy sunshine

Wed More or less a repeat of Monday

Thurs Cloudy morning becoming brighter by afternoon

Friday A nice day
 
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